CFI practical test - aircraft required

Maybe too late for u. But...the correct way to do it is to do CFII first
with the FSDO. No complex, no T/O's & Lndg's no BS/ Just instruments stuff.
Then u do the basic CFI with u'r favorite DE.

M.


"kontiki" wrote in message
...
I am sure this subject has been brought up before (why? because the
answer is not immediately obvious in the FARs) but I'd appreciate
some input from the knowledge base.

I'm close to scheduling my CFI checkride (practical teat to be precise)
and although I've always assumed it had to be performed in a complex
airplane (and have been doing all the right seat flying in one), I can
not find a direct refrence in part 61 as to the requirement for such an
airplane. The most pertinent references I can find refer to training
and logging PIC in ".. the category and class of aircraft that is
appropriate to the flight instructor rating being sought".

This sort of reference appears several times throughout 61.185 but I
never see a direct reference to a "complex" airplane. So my question,
and that raised by my instructor today (gold seal BTW) is where did
this come from? He assured me he did his CFI checkride in a 152...

Any comments [and FAR references] are appreciated.

size and power of a Piper Arrow? I'm not talking Bonanza..

do all of your training in the traumahawk.. polish off in the arrow and use
the arrow for the check ride

BT

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:iPkwf.41025$QW2.1292@dukeread08...
Use a Skipper, C150/152/Tomahawk etc for most of the CFI or
commercial test and just use the complex as required is the
least expensive way to do it. But people's egos get in the
way and they want the size and power of the complex
airplane.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Capt. Mike" wrote in message
. ..
|R u paying for my training in a complex for all the other
required stuff ?
|
| easy with my money pal..
|
|
| "BTIZ" wrote in message
| newsdkwf.8776$V.3820@fed1read04...
| Show up with a Complex Aircraft and the Spin Endorsement
completed..
| If the Examiner REQUIRES the SPIN as part of the test..
then get a
| continuance letter specifying what is complete and what
is not complete
| and what needs to be accomplished to complete.
|
| It always boggles my mind.. it's the same as showing up
for a Commercial
| check ride in a non complex aircraft.. and swapping
aircraft for a couple
| of landings in complex aircraft... just do the whole
check ride in
| complex.
|
| BT
|
| "Peter Clark"
wrote in message
| ...
| On Sun, 08 Jan 2006 20:27:13 -0600, Rachel
wrote:
|
| Peter Clark wrote:
| Well, yes and no. The task (section XI, task G)
notes that an
| endorsement may be substituted for that task, but the
task is
| required. In the event of no endorsement (or the
examiner not
| substituting it), a spin-capable aircraft would be
required.
|
| If a complex aircraft is required for takeoffs and
landings, how would
| one manage that? I can't imagine bringing two aircraft
to FSDO (if a
| FSDO visit was required). Are any complex aircraft ok
to spin? The one
| I did my CFI in wasn't.
|
| I don't know about the complex aircraft question, but
I'm sure there's
| some way around it if you had to demonstrate them. How
about go to
| the FSDO, pick up the examiner, bring them back to your
home field for
| the spin portion of the exam? Or have your CFI ferry
the spin capable
| aircraft over to the airport the checkride was going to
take place in
| with you then disappear for a while you get the
checkride over with?
| Once the examiner is assigned, I presume it would be
fair game to ask
| them if they'd accept the endorsement so you can
arrange appropriate
| aircraft for all the pieces of the checkride?
|
|
|
|

Jim Macklin wrote:
Use a Skipper, C150/152/Tomahawk etc for most of the CFI or
commercial test and just use the complex as required is the
least expensive way to do it. But people's egos get in the
way and they want the size and power of the complex
airplane.



Can you do commercial maneuvers in a 152? I'm trying to imagine that.
I just did my commercial from the right seat and talked myself through
everything. By the time I got my CFI, it was easy. Saved a lot of time
and money, even though I did a lot of it in the 172RG.

Use a Skipper, C150/152/Tomahawk etc for most of the CFI or
commercial test and just use the complex as required is the
least expensive way to do it.

Is this true even if paying by the hobbs at a busy airport?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Sure you can do "commercial maneuvers" in a CE 152. A
chandelle is a coordination maneuver, not graded on actually
gain altitude. On a hot day, you night only gain 100 feet
at gross [all dual in a 152 is at gross with two men]. A
Bonanza might gain ten times that, but you are graded on
getting the "best" performance doing the maneuver as
described in the PTS.
The 150/152 cabin is tight with two men, not a lot of
shoulder and hip room, so the use of a larger airplane may
be necessary. It may not even be possible to carry a
minimum fuel load and be under certified gross weight,
depends on the size of the pilots [2 x 200+] pilots doesn't
leave much for fuel, oil and charts, fuel reserve and lesson
fuel.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.




"Rachel" wrote in message
. ..
| Jim Macklin wrote:
| Use a Skipper, C150/152/Tomahawk etc for most of the CFI
or
| commercial test and just use the complex as required is
the
| least expensive way to do it. But people's egos get in
the
| way and they want the size and power of the complex
| airplane.
|
|
|
| Can you do commercial maneuvers in a 152? I'm trying to
imagine that.
| I just did my commercial from the right seat and talked
myself through
| everything. By the time I got my CFI, it was easy. Saved
a lot of time
| and money, even though I did a lot of it in the 172RG.

Sure it is true. Flight experience required for a rating is
measured in hours, not miles. There is a requirement for
both hours and minimum distance for x-c, but the less
expensive airplane will wait the same time on the ground as
the more expensive complex airplane.
The Hobbs meter [John W. Hobbs] invented the meter and sold
his company to Stewart Warner. [I knew his daughter, who
was a friend of my sister.] The Hobbs meter may be
connected to the engine oil pressure, an air speed sensor,
or on complex aircraft the landing gear. FBOs like the oil
pressure switch since it starts counting when you start the
engine. The aircraft owner like the other since FAA
maintenance time in service is from lift-off to touch down.
Flight time is from first aircraft movement under power with
the intention of flight until stopping.

Most FBOs use the tach time, which counts revolutions
divided by expected cruise rpm to get time in service for
maintenance schedules but charge by the Hobbs that measures
time by the clock with the engine running. [hint---low rpm
cruise saves fuel and time in service since the tach time is
slower.]


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jose" wrote in message
m...
| Use a Skipper, C150/152/Tomahawk etc for most of the CFI
or
| commercial test and just use the complex as required is
the
| least expensive way to do it.
|
| Is this true even if paying by the hobbs at a busy
airport?
|
| Jose
| --
| Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

I already have a spin training sign-off.

Rachel wrote:
Jim Macklin wrote:

You also need an airplane available that can be legally spun.

Only if you're required to do spins on the checkride.

But that does not require the examiner to waive the
demonstration, it merely allows the examiner to do so. Some
examiners really like to spin.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"kontiki" wrote in message
...
|I already have a spin training sign-off.
|
| Rachel wrote:
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| You also need an airplane available that can be legally
spun.
|
| Only if you're required to do spins on the checkride.
|

kontiki wrote:
I am sure this subject has been brought up before (why? because the
answer is not immediately obvious in the FARs) but I'd appreciate
some input from the knowledge base.

I'm close to scheduling my CFI checkride (practical teat to be precise)
and although I've always assumed it had to be performed in a complex
airplane (and have been doing all the right seat flying in one), I can
not find a direct refrence in part 61 as to the requirement for such an
airplane. The most pertinent references I can find refer to training
and logging PIC in ".. the category and class of aircraft that is
appropriate to the flight instructor rating being sought".

This sort of reference appears several times throughout 61.185 but I
never see a direct reference to a "complex" airplane. So my question,
and that raised by my instructor today (gold seal BTW) is where did
this come from? He assured me he did his CFI checkride in a 152...

Any comments [and FAR references] are appreciated.


When I took mine it needed to be in a complex. (Used an Arrow)

the less
expensive airplane will wait the same time on the ground as
the more expensive complex airplane.

Yes, but you'll have to do it twice. You need to runup, take off, and
land, and taxi both aircraft in order to accomplish the test using a
non-complex one for part of the test. You pay 100% for that time, which
compensates to some degree for the fact that the more expensive airplane
(which you would have otherwise been using for the entire test) costs more.

I know of no FBOs that charge by tach. I have run into one FBO aircraft
whose hobbs is connected to the master switch - you pay $100/hr for
testing the stall warning and setting up radios even before the engine
starts. So it doesn't matter (to the renter) what the FBO uses for
maintanence, and there's no incentive (to the pilot) to engage in low
RPM cruise. FBOs I know will use tach times 1.2 if the hobbs is "too
low" (broken). With all that, there's a lot of overhead to switching
airplanes in the middle of the test.

I'm not convinced that it's not cheaper to just stay with the same
airplane for the entire test.

Now training, that's another thing.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.