I think I know why so many Cirrus' crash

On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 05:30:25 GMT, (Ron Lee)
wrote:

I have had concerns about Cirrus pilots after reading of some
of the parachute deployments.

I skim the Aero-News Propwash newsletter each morning. It often seems
that there's a Cirrus deployment de jour. Aero-News thinks it's a
great thing that the parachute saves so many air crew. I think it's a
shame that the parachute trashes so many airframes.

It's a wonder Cirrus pilots can get insurance. Are we paying for them?



-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
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On 14 Jan 2006 23:59:35 -0800, wrote:

Cirruses (Cirrusi?)

Cirri


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

On 14 Jan 2006 23:59:35 -0800, wrote:

Think of the way that the Titanic was operated
because it was considered unsinkable, it was safer than other ships,

Yes, we "consume" a considerable part of each safety development
(think ski helmets) by more aggressive behavior.


-- all the best, Dan Ford

email: usenet AT danford DOT net

Warbird's Forum: www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum: www.pipercubforum.com
In Search of Lost Time: www.readingproust.com

You don't have to make excuses when you use superior judgement to avoid
circumstances where you might have had to use superior skills!

Thanks for explaining.

Before you rip on too many Cirrus owners, did he have to go around for poor
airspeed control?


"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
Coming back from KCOS to 00V today several aircraft were in the
pattern for runway 33 and some people wanted runway 15 since the winds
were at the changeover point. With one or two at the runup area for
runway 15 I just went east until the fiasco was sorted out (I made
several position reports since people were all over).

Once that happened I announced my intentions (enter left downwind for
15) about 7-8 miles out and not long after that a Cirrus announced he
was 10 miles out. When I was on left downwind the Cirrus pilot
broadcast that he was on about 4 mile base for 15. I "assumed" he
meant downwind. Then when I was about to turn base he called out four
mile FINAL for 15. I saw a plane in that area and turned base
(calling it out by radio of course)

He asked if I was cutting in front of him and I stated "Looks like
it."

Soon thereafter I decided that I was too fast so went around then when
on downwind again stated that his (Cirrus "pilot") pattern entry was
bad. His response was "I called it out." I told him that it was not
good when other planes are using a standard pattern. Had he been the
only one around I would not have cared.

Thus my assessment is that Cirrus pilots have too much money and
inadequate pilot skills/common sense. Other fatal crashes just add to
this perception.

Ron Lee

"Cub Driver" usenet AT danford DOT net wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 05:30:25 GMT, (Ron Lee)
wrote:

I have had concerns about Cirrus pilots after reading of some
of the parachute deployments.

I skim the Aero-News Propwash newsletter each morning. It often seems
that there's a Cirrus deployment de jour. Aero-News thinks it's a
great thing that the parachute saves so many air crew. I think it's a
shame that the parachute trashes so many airframes.

It's a wonder Cirrus pilots can get insurance. Are we paying for them?

Yes. It's a great country we live in eh? I also get to pay for all the
motor vehicle idiots, as well as all the medical idiots as well as all the
unemployed, lawsuits, prisions, etc, etc, etc. Gotta love a system of taxes
and insurance...

"Ron Lee" wrote in message
...
"Tony" wrote:

Ron, a serious question here. I appreciate good judgement when you
chose to go around being too fast somewhere on final, but would you say
a few words as to what might have set up that circumstance?

Was it a short runway, or was someone slow getting off the active, or
did you just come in too hot to put enough spacing between you and the
Cirrus?

I was distracted by the traffic issues and "see and avoid a collision"
took precedence over optimal airspeed management. This was
particularly relevant when I turned base and was looking for someone
on final who should not have been there; assessing the distance of
that aircraft and speed for relevance to my normal approach. No
excuse but it was a factor and my best judgement was to go-around
rather than attempt to salvage a poor approach.

Ron Lee


The interesting thing about this thread is that it is not so much
highlighting the case of unsafe Cirrus drivers as it is showing us how
someone can be distracted enough to get themself into a bad situation.

You do realize that you are actually the aircraft in the highest risk of
crashing in this situation, not the Cirrus driver you ripped on. Had
someone else with less experience or judgement attempted to land out of this
situation, it could have easily turned into an accident, long landing, can't
stop, runway departure, etc.

Atleast you made the right call to go around, I know many others that
wouldn't have.

Scott D wrote in message
...
On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 01:16:05 GMT, (Ron Lee)
wrote:

Coming back from KCOS to 00V today several aircraft were in the
pattern for runway 33 and some people wanted runway 15 since the winds
were at the changeover point. With one or two at the runup area for
runway 15 I just went east until the fiasco was sorted out (I made
several position reports since people were all over).

Hey Ron, I flew out of 00V today as well. We took off around 1030ish
and came back around 1230ish. There was a SR-22 in the pattern from
the time we were preflighting till we took off. If it was the same
one, and I am assuming it was, it appeared to me that he was a fairly
new pilot as well. I was watching his pattern work and his landings
and needless to say, they were not spectacular at all. I watch about
4-5 of his landings and they were always to fast which caused him to
touch down almost midfield every time, and he would bounce it several
times after that. The guy I was with, made the comment to the fact of
"what is wrong with that guy". So you were not the only one to see
this type of flying from him.


I've seen "new pilots" in many different planes over the past 20 years,
Cirrus is just the latest crazy for those with money.

ya still gotta be careful out there.

Well streamlined small aircraft can be a trick to land. The Cessna
177B is one example and the Cirrus is another. Bring them down to
within two feet of the runway surface, hold it level and apply brakes
when it hits the surface. How hard can it be?

It was a long time ago when I went from high wing airplanes with flaps
that would make it possible to flare on the numbers from way-too-high
on final to a Mooney 201. It took some time before I was comfortable
flying it at a suitable airspeed on short final, but that lesson was
well learned. It's nice to think about where I want to turn off the
runway and plan my touchdown a thousand feet or so before that point
without worrying about technique or the like. Nothing like hundreds and
hundreds of hours in the same airplane to be able to fly it well.

It turns out Mooneys slip really well, too: a pilot can burn a lot of
altitude without gaining airspeed that way. Mooney flaps do a good job
of reducing stall speed, but they surely are not the barn door air
brakes Cessna puts on 182s.

The 'game' my partner and I play when we fly together is, the PIC has
to buy the check pilot a drink if he has to advance the throttle
anywhere from the OM to flare (if under the hood) or from passing the
numbers downwind if in the pattern. We have other 'games' too, but that
one is relevent to this thread.

FWIW, I admire a pilot who has the intellegence to say there's
something wrong with an approach and chooses to abort a landing. Too
many others try to force things and that sometimes leads to bent
airplanes and broken people.

The thread has deviated from its initial topic into other interesting
areas without involving politics yet. How long can that last?