Commercial rating?

Any private pilot may offer, on a bulletin board a FREE ride
home. But if you are wanting to share the cost, several
checks are required.
1. The pilot is going anyway, whether anybody else wants to
go.
2. The offer cannot be made as a public offering, but only
to friends.
3. Costs must be shared which means the pilot must pay at
least the pro rata share, your passengers cannot pay all the
costs.

A commercial pilot without a 135 certificate as an operator
has only the privilege of a private pilot.

A notice on the Internet or a laundry bulletin board that
says, "Airplane going to fly on the week-end, where do you
want to go?" is very illegal. A similar notice that says,
"Flying to St.Louis on Friday and coming back Sunday, round
trip $200." is also illegal, even if the calculated share
cost would be $500.

A notice that says, "Frat brothers, I'm flying to St.Louis
on Friday and coming back on Sunday. Share the airplane
costs to be calculated after the trip. Meals and lodging
not part of the shared costs." would probably be legal since
it was offered only to "friends" and the cost was open.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jose" wrote in message
m...
| the FAA has said that merely
| putting a notice on a bulletin board is holding out. The
rationale is that
| the uninformed public needs some assurance...
|
| This is not a good justification. The uninformed public
needs to be
| informed. This can be accomplished by requiring that any
offer of
| flight clearly state that one is (or is not) a private
pilot who does
| not meet the regulations for paying commercial flight,
and/or is flying
| a private aircraft which is not maintained to commercial
standards.
|
| Don't you feel safer knowing that
| the captain of your airline flight has...
|
| Not relevant, and I doubt the public knows what the
airline captain has
| gone through. And I believe that the uninformed public
does know the
| difference between an airline flight and a private
airplane flight.
|
| I think the FAA has gone way overboard on this, and has
cut out some
| excellent ways to boost GA (for example, putting an offer
of flying home
| on the same bulletin board as offers for driving home from
college)
|
| People putting offers to drive home from college are not
livery drivers,
| and probably have had their license for only a few years.
|
| Jose
| --
| Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

But an offer of a free ride is different from a $10 ride.


"Jose" wrote in message
...
| However, generally speaking if a pilot demonstrates a
| willingness to fly the general public, they are "holding
out".
|
| And getting known for offering to fly people hanging
around the airport
| fence demonstrates a willingness to fly the general
public.
|
| Jose
| --
| Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

The FAA will look at each operation on its merits. If you
are flying a photographer, who is taking photographs by the
hundreds, for some purpose, you are probably OK. But if you
are skirting the charter 135 rules by taking tourists on a
sightseeing ride and they happen to have their pocket camera
or cellphone with camera, it does not meet the test.

It is your certificate which is on the line. If you are
"doing photo work" you may have a mounted camera(s), be
carrying a professional photographer who hired you, or you
the pilot may have hired the photographer to take pictures
you were hired to get for a customer.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Sylvain" wrote in message
t...
| Jim Macklin wrote:
|
| You can do photo work, as long as you are the
photographer,
|
| actually this is incorrect. aerial photography, along
with
| other things like ferry flights, crop dusting, banner
towing,
| firefighting, etc. are the kind of aerial work a
commercial
| pilot can engage in. The 25 miles radius things are for
sight
| seeing flight (hint: suggest your sight seeing customers
to
| bring a camera and then it becomes an aerial photography
flight :-)
|
| --Sylvain

"Jose" wrote in message
...
And getting known for offering to fly people hanging around the airport
fence demonstrates a willingness to fly the general public.

You keep forgetting the "commercial operation" component of the issue.
Without compensation, there is no holding out as a commercial operation.

Paul,

- How different is the second class medical from the third?


IIRC, vision is the key difference. For Class III, you need 20/40
corrected vision, for Class II it's 20/20.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

(hint: suggest your sight seeing customers to
bring a camera and then it becomes an aerial photography flight :-)

From my experience the FAA does not like pilots who try to play lawyers
and look for loop holes. The FAA is also very, very sensitive to 135
operations. If you advertise such a service they will notice and start
asking questions pretty quickly.

-Robert

(from Peter Duniho)
You keep forgetting the "commercial operation" component of the issue.
Without compensation, there is no holding out as a commercial operation.

Maybe (only maybe) so, but the FAA has rather creative definitions of
"compensation". I would never have considered recording the flight in a
logbook (a history of what actually happened) "compensation", nor does
it seem right that the fact that I can use this experience (which
actually happened) to demonstrate to the FAA that I am worthy of an
advanced rating to be "compensation" either.

(from Jim Macklin)
Any private pilot may offer, on a bulletin board a FREE ride
home. But if you are wanting to share the cost, several
checks are required.
1. The pilot is going anyway, whether anybody else wants to
go.
2. The offer cannot be made as a public offering, but only
to friends.
3. Costs must be shared which means the pilot must pay at
least the pro rata share, your passengers cannot pay all the
costs.

1 and 2 are not enumerated in the FARs. They are made up out of whole
cloth. The FAA can do that and get away with it.

And as for (1), "I am going to fly for three hours =anyway=. Wanna come
with me? I don't care where we go."

Legal? Where in the FARs?

Having made the offer, and having no takers, is it legal to consider the
weather, the condition of the aircraft, and the condition of the pilot,
and decide to not fly?

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

The FAA lawyers make the rules. For instance, a brand new
private pilot may change a tire, but cannot work on the
brakes on the same wheel.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Jose" wrote in message
et...
| (from Peter Duniho)
| You keep forgetting the "commercial operation" component
of the issue.
| Without compensation, there is no holding out as a
commercial operation.
|
| Maybe (only maybe) so, but the FAA has rather creative
definitions of
| "compensation". I would never have considered recording
the flight in a
| logbook (a history of what actually happened)
"compensation", nor does
| it seem right that the fact that I can use this experience
(which
| actually happened) to demonstrate to the FAA that I am
worthy of an
| advanced rating to be "compensation" either.
|
| (from Jim Macklin)
| Any private pilot may offer, on a bulletin board a FREE
ride
| home. But if you are wanting to share the cost, several
| checks are required.
| 1. The pilot is going anyway, whether anybody else wants
to
| go.
| 2. The offer cannot be made as a public offering, but
only
| to friends.
| 3. Costs must be shared which means the pilot must pay
at
| least the pro rata share, your passengers cannot pay all
the
| costs.
|
| 1 and 2 are not enumerated in the FARs. They are made up
out of whole
| cloth. The FAA can do that and get away with it.
|
| And as for (1), "I am going to fly for three hours
=anyway=. Wanna come
| with me? I don't care where we go."
|
| Legal? Where in the FARs?
|
| Having made the offer, and having no takers, is it legal
to consider the
| weather, the condition of the aircraft, and the condition
of the pilot,
| and decide to not fly?
|
| Jose
| --
| Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
| for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

The FAA lawyers make the rules. For instance, a brand new
private pilot may change a tire, but cannot work on the
brakes on the same wheel.

Yes, but those rules are written down in a place labled "rules", where
we can all see them. The FAA also makes other rules that it keeps to
itself, and trots them out when convenient. Their definition of
"compensation" is one such.

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:JktPf.116461$QW2.88175@dukeread08...
The FAA lawyers make the rules. For instance, a brand new
private pilot may change a tire, but cannot work on the
brakes on the same wheel.

My wife and daughter can change a tire on the car, but neither of them could
do a brake job on those cars.