Article: Older pilots crashing in disproportionate numbers

Jose wrote:
...and we let them
continue to drive just to make them feel independent.

It's not a question of "feeling". If we take the cars away, who will
drive them the six miles to the grocery store?

You are right of course, since we so rarely have alternate
transportation. There are a few "senior ride" type programs, but they
are insufficient. That gets us into a whole new discussion about doing
things for just seniors instead of everybody, and I'm not wanting to go
there because it's one of my favorite soapboxes.

Still, if the drivers are unsafe, you must get them out of the cars.
Who drives them to the grocery store is a secondary question.
Otherwise, you have to ask who will drive them--and others--to the
hospital or morgue.

The same thing exists for ageing pilots, but I don't see it as a major
problem. There are fewer of us, and flying isn't much of a requirement
for normal living as is a car. Unless you are a pilot, I suppose....

In article ,
Jose wrote:

...and we let them
continue to drive just to make them feel independent.

It's not a question of "feeling". If we take the cars away, who will
drive them the six miles to the grocery store?


When you reach my age you'll start to be interested in and learn about
the ideas for "virtual retirement communities" that are just now
emerging in lots of areas, to solve this and many other problems.

Or try

http://www.stanford.edu/~siegman/passengers_as_packets.html

wrote in message
oups.com...
There are many things that affect our driving and flying.
Being careless while young is one issue, and some states are looking at
changing the minimum age driving rules because of this.

I think you're confusing "careless" versus "reckless". What teens do is
typically _reckless_; what old geezers do is _careless_.

At least the reckless driver is somewhat aware of what's going on around
them (especially after they get older), but the careless driver is off in
the ozone.

When I was doing road building in the 80's, it was pretty much acknowledged
that three-fourths of fatal TAs were due to carelessness (not as latently
deadly as recklessness, but way more common). Most commonly it was blowing a
traffic sign while "daydreaming".


--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
Site-Fill Homes, LLC.
Montrose, CO

wrote in message
ups.com...
Jose wrote:
...and we let them
continue to drive just to make them feel independent.

It's not a question of "feeling". If we take the cars away, who will
drive them the six miles to the grocery store?

You are right of course, since we so rarely have alternate
transportation. There are a few "senior ride" type programs, but they
are insufficient.

Boy, you should take a tour of a typical "Seizure World"! :~)

"Jim Macklin" wrote in message
news:JpdTf.118056$QW2.90111@dukeread08...
Most car rentals want a credit card and you must be 25.
There a young man who joined the police force in Florida at
age 18. Because of Federal law, his mother had to buy his
gun and ammunition for him.


Sounds like an urban legend as PD's won't hire until 21.

Then again, sometimes the old farts just keep doing it better.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?e...24X01192&key=1

Matt Barrow wrote:
wrote in message

You are right of course, since we so rarely have alternate
transportation. There are a few "senior ride" type programs, but they
are insufficient.

Boy, you should take a tour of a typical "Seizure World"! :~)

If you are talking about the kind of thing I think you are, we have a
number of them here in the Phoenix area. Sun Lakes is just a few miles
away. They're kinda nice, actually. Well done, upper-cut homes,
waking paths, and many houses have a mini-garage used to house their
golf cart, which gets them around the neighborhood and the local
grocery store. Hey, why do you hafta be a geezer to get that kind of
deal? 8)
The reality is that those folks are pretty darn well off. Many of the
houses are only occuppied in the winter half of the year.

And, they still have cars, and lots of motorhomes, so the issue of
aging drivers still remains.

Do they have planes??? I'm thinking most don't since they are
organizing to complain about Memorial Airfield maybe becoming
operational on the Indian Reservation nearby. Oops, that a whole
'nother thread.

Still, if the drivers are unsafe, you must get them out of the cars.

Agreed, FSVO "unsafe". But what is that V?

Jose
--
Nothing takes longer than a shortcut.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 at 10:48:05 in message
nPWSf.117909$QW2.29237@dukeread08, Jim Macklin
wrote:

I think that a Nerf football or baseball should be used by
doctors and DL examiners to test reaction times, without
being warned [except by signs posted] the examiner should
toss the ball AT the applicant from about 5-10 feet away.
This should be done to young and old alike [no
discrimination.] If they did not at least react BEFORE the
ball hit them by trying to dodge, catch or deflect the ball
before it passed them, they are either on drugs, drunk, too
old and should not be driving or flying. IMHO.

I confess I am an older driver. But over the years I have watched myself
and others and come to the conclusion that reaction time is not the most
important factor. The most important aptitude required, in my opinion,
is anticipation. That is the ability to notice and react to personal
predictions of the short term future and to recognise potential hazards
before they need _any_ significant reaction time.

If reaction time was all important then (this true in the UK) the 18 -
25 year old group of male drivers would not pay high premiums nor have
higher accident rates then any other. That group tend to have a high
opinion of their own skills and are more likely to take unnecessary
risks.

You certainly do deteriorate with age and everyone ought to decide for
themselves, assuming they are reasonably fit, when they should give up.
Sometimes friends or relations may give guidance sometimes it is a
medical condition that cannot be ignored. Older people drive with larger
vehicle spacing and tend to avoid difficult manoeuvres. Those that
require turning your head through 180 degrees for example. Occasionally
reaction time is vital but in most cases the need for it would not arise
if the dangerous situation was avoided early.

Distraction from the job in hand can be dangerous. I always cringe when
I watch drivers in movies look at their front seat passenger for long
seconds!

I have driven in the USA as well as in the UK - but not as much! I have
much less experience of flying but I would have thought that rapid
reaction times (as opposed to making correct decisions) are even less
needed in the air although judgement and prediction are even more
important.

I concede that a lot of older drivers avoid, if they can, unfamiliar and
complex roads and junctions. I also try to avoid night driving.

On the other hand I once saw a TV programme about quite a young female
driver who never made right turns. (If you are in the USA read _left_
turns). She spent hours studying maps and would go 15 or more miles
extra to drive only left turns. You may well ask how she got through her
driving test. For those who are unfamiliar with roundabouts she only
entered if she could leave at the first exit. I arranged for an
American friend of mine visiting us in the UK to drive my car. He was
unable to cope with roundabouts at all!

One of my stepsons (I think he was winding me up) said that he felt the
greatest hazard on the roads was old drivers keeping at or below the
speed limits!! :-) Perhaps he was kidding as well, because has now
lived and worked in the USA since 1997 and has yet to collect a speeding
ticket. He is the same guy who when he was 18 thought it was hardly
worth living beyond 30. We went to his 50th Birthday last year!

However I believe my reaction time is still pretty good and my eyesight
has just been thoroughly checked both for acuity and peripheral field.

One thing is probably sure is that your attitude does change somewhat
with age!
--
David CL Francis

"David CL Francis" wrote in message
I confess I am an older driver. But over the years I have watched myself
and others and come to the conclusion that reaction time is not the most
important factor. The most important aptitude required, in my opinion, is
anticipation. That is the ability to notice and react to personal
predictions of the short term future and to recognise potential hazards
before they need _any_ significant reaction time.

Funny how often those predictions are wrong (one way or the other).

Is that why older drivers speed up, slow down, speed up, slow down, speed
up...slam on brakes...?

Works great on a freeway...which I notice many older drivers do tend to
use...during rush hour...in the left lanes...


If reaction time was all important then (this true in the UK) the 18 - 25
year old group of male drivers would not pay high premiums nor have higher
accident rates then any other. That group tend to have a high opinion of
their own skills and are more likely to take unnecessary risks.

Note this next paragraph.


Distraction from the job in hand can be dangerous. I always cringe when I
watch drivers in movies look at their front seat passenger for long
seconds!

Now put those last two together and see what you come up with.

(PS: No one said reaction time is ALL important)
--
Matt
---------------------
Matthew W. Barrow
(13 years in traffic engineering)