Class C Airspace Discussion

"Roy Smith" wrote in message
...

What happens if you're within the lateral and vertical boundaries of a
part-time Class C when the tower opens in the morning?


Depends where you are and what you're doing. Shortly before we open in the
morning we exchange traffic information with Minneapolis Center and Green
Bay FSS. Arrival traffic is switched to tower or approach as appropriate,
overflights may be switched to approach or kept by Center. At the appointed
time we broadcast on all frequencies that we are open.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

Personally, (as you know) I expected the RFD approach controller to be
on the same sheet of music as the JVL tower controller. They are 25.6
miles apart, and work together hand-in-glove MOST of the time.

When I'm receiving flight following from Denver Approach I am always told to
contact the Class D tower (Jeffco, Centennial, Front Range) before entering
their airspace.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
Crazy and potentially dangerous because of the 180 degree turn or because
you arrived unexpected and unannounced in busy airspace? What else would
you expect the tower controller to do at that point?

Personally, (as you know) I expected the RFD approach controller to be
on the same sheet of music as the JVL tower controller. They are 25.6
miles apart, and work together hand-in-glove MOST of the time.

We have found the JVL tower folks to be missing a few fingers off the glove
from time to time.

Just not that day...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Name's not Kris. This was the real thing.

Let's talk some common sense. I can't keep track of a myriad of rules,
but I (and other pilots) know when things make sense. If approach or
center is giving me radar vectors and talking to me, I expect him to
vector me away from unauthorized airspace. He knows all the rules about
air traffic control. I know how to fly the airplane and do what he
says. If some ATC guy dumped me off into some airspace and told me
goodbye, and I contacted that airspace frequency and HE was ****ed
cause he didn't know about me, well, I'd think it was the ATC guy that
dropped the ball. Just makes sense. I mean ATC is NOT SUPPOSED TO SET
TRAPS FOR PILOTS, fer cryin' out loud. They are supposed to at least
TRY and keep us OUT of trouble. If they can't coordinate us in, drop us
and give us the freq, but don't have us just fly on in and then say
goodbye......

Let's talk some common sense. I can't keep track of a myriad of rules,
but I (and other pilots) know when things make sense. If approach or
center is giving me radar vectors and talking to me, I expect him to
vector me away from unauthorized airspace. He knows all the rules about
air traffic control. I know how to fly the airplane and do what he
says. If some ATC guy dumped me off into some airspace and told me
goodbye, and I contacted that airspace frequency and HE was ****ed
cause he didn't know about me, well, I'd think it was the ATC guy that
dropped the ball. Just makes sense. I mean ATC is NOT SUPPOSED TO SET
TRAPS FOR PILOTS, fer cryin' out loud. They are supposed to at least
TRY and keep us OUT of trouble. If they can't coordinate us in, drop us
and give us the freq, but don't have us just fly on in and then say
goodbye......

What I mean is, if they can't coordinate us into the airspace in
question, then they should cancel our radar services BEFORE we are in
it, give us the frequency and we negotiate with the agency in charge.
Don't just vector us inside the airspace, and say goodbye without
coordinating with the agency in charge of THAT airspace. That is a
recipe for making EVERYONE mad, uncomfortable and ready to file some
paperwork, make some hot phone calls etc. Not good ATC work at all.....
And sorry about the double post above.....

Mike Granby wrote:
The confusion may come from that fact that if you
are receiving flight following (or IFR) from center or
some other facility and you fly through the class C
you are ok, it is there responsibility to coordinate
with the class C controllers for you or to hand you off.

IFR, yes, but flight following, no. That's the whole point of the FAA's
reply. If you're getting flight following, it's still your
responsbility to know where you are and to make sure you're talking to
the TRACON before you enter the Class C. If Center doesn't hand you
off, that doesn't absolve you.


Why not just query the controller when you are getting close to someone
elses airspace? A reminder never hurts anyone. But assuming things can.

This is correct. However if the center lets you keep your beacon code,
stays on his frequency and flies into the airspace of another ATC
facility (such as a class C airspace) w/o either arranging a handoff or
terminating the radar service, that center controller has goofed very
badly. Remember, the sector boundary of a class C facility is almost
always far larger than the class C airspace itself. For someone to get
into the class C airspace itself while staying on the center freq,
he/she would have been out of the center sector for tens of miles w/o
being noticed by the center controller.

"Doug" wrote in message
ups.com...

Let's talk some common sense.


Always happy to do that. Your message appears unrelated to the one you've
responded to and has no quoted content, what exactly are you referring to?



I can't keep track of a myriad of rules,
but I (and other pilots) know when things make sense. If approach or
center is giving me radar vectors and talking to me, I expect him to
vector me away from unauthorized airspace.


A reasonable assumption, if you're eligible to be vectored.



He knows all the rules about
air traffic control. I know how to fly the airplane and do what he
says. If some ATC guy dumped me off into some airspace and told me
goodbye, and I contacted that airspace frequency and HE was ****ed
cause he didn't know about me, well, I'd think it was the ATC guy that
dropped the ball. Just makes sense. I mean ATC is NOT SUPPOSED TO SET
TRAPS FOR PILOTS, fer cryin' out loud. They are supposed to at least
TRY and keep us OUT of trouble. If they can't coordinate us in, drop us
and give us the freq, but don't have us just fly on in and then say
goodbye......


I have to assume you're referring to Jay Honeck's situation, where he
complains of being "dumped" three miles inside of the JVL Class D airspace
by RFD approach. Jay operates VFR only, he was just receiving traffic
advisories from RFD approach. RFD had no authority to issue vectors to him.
They could suggest them, but they cannot assign them. Nor could they assign
a route or altitude. They could not require him to remain on their
frequency, he was free to leave it at any time. It was solely his
responsibility to contact the tower prior to entering the Class D airspace,
approach is under no obligation to coordinate VFR arrivals with the tower.
They can, and some may, but there's really no reason to do it as the initial
call by the pilot generally contains all the information approach would be
coordinating anyway.