Joined the club today........

Bob Moore wrote:


As a 35 year flight instructor, I feel that you received inadequate
pre-solo training. The pattern can (and perhaps should) be flown by
the use of pitch and power only. Set the power and pitch correctly
and the airspeed will be there. No student of mine has ever soloed
without flying an entire lesson (in and out of the pattern) with the
entire instrument panel completely covered except for the tachometer.
RPM settings....Takeoff and climb to pattern altitude...Full Power,
Downwind in a C-172, about 2100 RPM...who cares what the airspeed is?
Abeam the touchdown spot, set 1500 RPM, lower the nose and keep the
nose down, lower first noch flaps, who cares what the airspeed is?
I'll bet that it settles out at 85kts. On base leg, second notch of
flaps keeping the nose down and the airspeed WILL back right down to
75kts. Turn final, keep the nose down (still with 1500 RPM) and drop
final flap and the airspeed WILL drop to 65kts. Who needs an airspeed
indicator? Only an inexperienced flight instructor! They scare easily. :-)
I still don't understand your "I ran out of rudder" comment, the faster
you go, the more rudder control you have.



I'm sure you're correct, Bob, but my understanding is that stalls in
the circuit are a well-recognised cause of accidents? If so, it might
not be as automatic as you suggest for a novice.

Steph wrote

I'm sure you're correct, Bob, but my understanding is that stalls in
the circuit are a well-recognised cause of accidents? If so, it might
not be as automatic as you suggest for a novice.

With 1500 RPM and the nose below the horizon, the airplane
WILL NOT stall. :-) There are some qualifications to this
generalized statement, learn what the runway looks like on a
stabilized approach and just always put the nose in that same
position every time, it WILL NOT stall.

Bob Moore

Hi Bob,


Since you have 35 years experience as an instructore, perhaps you can
help me.
I am attending flying school PART61 and jsut fly one time. But aI was
able to land the airplane by my self, thanks to Flight SImulator.
Based on my 15 years experience on the Flight Simulator, do you have
any input as far as a program that fits with me? The school offered me
a standart program for a student that have zero knowledge about
airplane, and I believe I am about one or two step ahead of them.
I am familiar with S Turn, Steep Turn, Lazy 8, Traffic Patern,
Rectagle, Touch and Go etc.
I also Familiar with the preflight check, VFR, IFR Learning ADF, NDP
and also using approach plate. On my first flight lesson, I learned
Climb, Descend, Turn and Straight and level perfectly and plus landed
the cessna 152 right in the middle.
Based on your experience, Could you please give me an input regarding a
type of program that can be customize for me. Of course i am hoping
that my skilll from Fligth Sim will safe me money big time.

The flying school will teach me a radio comm and flight patern after 20
hour dual flight or meeting number 20th. What happen while during the
lesson, my instructure passed out and I have no idea waht to say on the
radio.

Thank you Bob for your time

Thank you Bob, I appreciate your time.




Bob Moore wrote:
I'm sure you are correct, and I seriously thought about taking off, but
on a second solo, with all the flying in the circuits so closely pinned
to airspeeds, I'm glad I didn't. I certainly wouldn't have felt
confident about knowing how far I was from stall speed on final......

As a 35 year flight instructor, I feel that you received inadequate
pre-solo training. The pattern can (and perhaps should) be flown by
the use of pitch and power only. Set the power and pitch correctly
and the airspeed will be there. No student of mine has ever soloed
without flying an entire lesson (in and out of the pattern) with the
entire instrument panel completely covered except for the tachometer.
RPM settings....Takeoff and climb to pattern altitude...Full Power,
Downwind in a C-172, about 2100 RPM...who cares what the airspeed is?
Abeam the touchdown spot, set 1500 RPM, lower the nose and keep the
nose down, lower first noch flaps, who cares what the airspeed is?
I'll bet that it settles out at 85kts. On base leg, second notch of
flaps keeping the nose down and the airspeed WILL back right down to
75kts. Turn final, keep the nose down (still with 1500 RPM) and drop
final flap and the airspeed WILL drop to 65kts. Who needs an airspeed
indicator? Only an inexperienced flight instructor! They scare easily. :-)
I still don't understand your "I ran out of rudder" comment, the faster
you go, the more rudder control you have.

BTW, here in the USofA, ultralights aren't even required to have such
things as altimeters and airspeed indicators.....and mine didn't.

Bob Moore
CFI ATP
B-707 B-727
PanAm (retired)

Based on my experience your skill with Flight Sim will give you so many bad
habits to unlearn and overcome before you can fly a real airplane safely
that it will take you considerably longer to achieve the competency required
to a license.

Highflyer
Highflight Aviation Services
Pinckneyville Airport ( PJY )

wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi Bob,


Since you have 35 years experience as an instructore, perhaps you can
help me.
I am attending flying school PART61 and jsut fly one time. But aI was
able to land the airplane by my self, thanks to Flight SImulator.
Based on my 15 years experience on the Flight Simulator, do you have
any input as far as a program that fits with me? The school offered me
a standart program for a student that have zero knowledge about
airplane, and I believe I am about one or two step ahead of them.
I am familiar with S Turn, Steep Turn, Lazy 8, Traffic Patern,
Rectagle, Touch and Go etc.
I also Familiar with the preflight check, VFR, IFR Learning ADF, NDP
and also using approach plate. On my first flight lesson, I learned
Climb, Descend, Turn and Straight and level perfectly and plus landed
the cessna 152 right in the middle.
Based on your experience, Could you please give me an input regarding a
type of program that can be customize for me. Of course i am hoping
that my skilll from Fligth Sim will safe me money big time.

The flying school will teach me a radio comm and flight patern after 20
hour dual flight or meeting number 20th. What happen while during the
lesson, my instructure passed out and I have no idea waht to say on the
radio.

Thank you Bob for your time

Thank you Bob, I appreciate your time.




Bob Moore wrote:
I'm sure you are correct, and I seriously thought about taking off, but
on a second solo, with all the flying in the circuits so closely pinned
to airspeeds, I'm glad I didn't. I certainly wouldn't have felt
confident about knowing how far I was from stall speed on final......

As a 35 year flight instructor, I feel that you received inadequate
pre-solo training. The pattern can (and perhaps should) be flown by
the use of pitch and power only. Set the power and pitch correctly
and the airspeed will be there. No student of mine has ever soloed
without flying an entire lesson (in and out of the pattern) with the
entire instrument panel completely covered except for the tachometer.
RPM settings....Takeoff and climb to pattern altitude...Full Power,
Downwind in a C-172, about 2100 RPM...who cares what the airspeed is?
Abeam the touchdown spot, set 1500 RPM, lower the nose and keep the
nose down, lower first noch flaps, who cares what the airspeed is?
I'll bet that it settles out at 85kts. On base leg, second notch of
flaps keeping the nose down and the airspeed WILL back right down to
75kts. Turn final, keep the nose down (still with 1500 RPM) and drop
final flap and the airspeed WILL drop to 65kts. Who needs an airspeed
indicator? Only an inexperienced flight instructor! They scare easily.
:-)
I still don't understand your "I ran out of rudder" comment, the faster
you go, the more rudder control you have.

BTW, here in the USofA, ultralights aren't even required to have such
things as altimeters and airspeed indicators.....and mine didn't.

Bob Moore
CFI ATP
B-707 B-727
PanAm (retired)

No student of mine has ever soloed
without flying an entire lesson (in and out of the pattern) with the
entire instrument panel completely covered except for the tachometer.
RPM settings....Takeoff and climb to pattern altitude...Full Power,
Downwind in a C-172, about 2100 RPM...who cares what the airspeed is?
Abeam the touchdown spot, set 1500 RPM, lower the nose and keep the
nose down, lower first noch flaps, who cares what the airspeed is?
I'll bet that it settles out at 85kts. On base leg, second notch of
flaps keeping the nose down and the airspeed WILL back right down to
75kts. Turn final, keep the nose down (still with 1500 RPM) and drop
final flap and the airspeed WILL drop to 65kts. Who needs an airspeed
indicator?

That's exactly how I was taught to fly, Bob. And, thanks to this type
of training, when I eventually lost my ASI (admittedly after getting my
ticket), it didn't matter a bit. Everything was done by RPMs.

Still, it's a great day when somone gets their ticket -- so let's not
concentrate TOO much on the negatives. (I just went on a DC-3 ride,
and one of the other passengers just passed his checkride TODAY. Talk
about a day he'll never forget!)

Great job, Steph!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

wrote in message
ups.com...
My flying training has taken a long time, I guess.........

I started flying training in 1990, but lack of time and money meant
that I stopped after about 10 hours, before going solo.

Last year, my wife bought me a block of lessons for my birthday, and I
found that I hadn't forgotten everything. I was so pleased I carried on
iwth training, and last week I passed my flight test, and this morning
I passed my written, and I now hold a Canadian PPL.



Congratulations now you are fully qualified to come here and talk about
politics.

Really, Congrats.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...

wrote in message
ups.com...
My flying training has taken a long time, I guess.........

I started flying training in 1990, but lack of time and money meant
that I stopped after about 10 hours, before going solo.

Last year, my wife bought me a block of lessons for my birthday, and I
found that I hadn't forgotten everything. I was so pleased I carried on
iwth training, and last week I passed my flight test, and this morning
I passed my written, and I now hold a Canadian PPL.



Congratulations now you are fully qualified to come here and talk about
politics.


As long as he is a Tory, that is...

;^)

Congrats!

Hi,

Congratulations for your PPL license. Same with me, my wife finally
allow me to take a PPL lesson on my birthday this year. Probably she
was sick of me playing the Flight Simualtor every day after work. Ive
been playing that game for 15 yeras. In fact when I am joining this
school i was able to land the plane on my first day lesson. I believe
that I am able to finish the PPL program max in 48 hours. But the
program was already set up so I wont be able to be solo until flying
dual about 20 hours. That means it will take about 60-70 hours until I
can get my PPL. THey still have to teach me about reading the flight
Indicator which I already know and it will take 2 hours minimum. Its
just a procedure they said.
Do I need to find a different school ? or can I customize my own
program but of course has to be meet the FAA regulations.
For example, the school will teach me the Flight pattern and the radio
comm almost at the end of the lesson. I believe that is very important
and they have to teach on the second or thirt meeting, is that true? On
their program also have 1 hours just to learn slow flight, which I
already familiar with the procedure just learning from Flight sim.
On my first flight, I learn descent, Climb, Tuurn and Straight and
Level in 0.6 Hour and plus I land the airplane. All of those learned
from SIm.
Do you have an input or a better learning program that I can follow and
I can jsut show it to my instructure to follow your program?

Thank you for your help.





wrote:
My flying training has taken a long time, I guess.........

I started flying training in 1990, but lack of time and money meant
that I stopped after about 10 hours, before going solo.

Last year, my wife bought me a block of lessons for my birthday, and I
found that I hadn't forgotten everything. I was so pleased I carried on
iwth training, and last week I passed my flight test, and this morning
I passed my written, and I now hold a Canadian PPL.

The journey wasn't entirely without excitement. On my second-ever solo
I was rolling down the runway in a Cessna 150 waiting for rotation
speed - and it never came. By the time I realised the airspeed
indicator was not going to work, I was doing well over rotation speed
and ran out of rudder. The aircraft veered off the runway to the left
as I pulled the power, and it would have been an embarassing run across
the grass except for the runway sign........
Next I knew I was upside down, with fuel pouring down the windshield. I
had the presence of mind to switch off the mags and master, and the
fuel shutoff, and climbed out of the door, just as the fire trucks were
arriving. Fortunately, apart from a few nasty cuts and bruises, I was
relatively intact. I was even able to take part in a radio interview
(about something else) an hour later. And the nice chappy from the
Canadian Dept of Transport Accident branch who I had to speak to on the
phone was very understanding, as was my flying school chief instructor.
Examination off the written-off aircraft confirmed an orchard bee had
climbed into and blocked the pitot, and I was cleared of all blame,
though I'm sure if I'd had more experience, I would have avoided the
crash and simply been able to abort takeoff safely.
I decided that either I would get back in the air immediately, or I
never would again, so I had my next lesson the next morning, and soloed
again the following week.
I guess that was the most dramatic episode in my pilot training, but
there are so many memorable moments. The first solo, the first solo
away from the circuit, the first solo cross-country, the first power on
stall, the first landing at a tiny strip in the country.......

Anyway, it was all worthwhile in the quest for a lifetime dream for
this aging new pilot.........I'm very happy to join the club. And if
there is a message for anyone still in the middle of training -
perservere. You'll have some low moments (though not as low as mine, I
trust) but you'll get there in the end.

OK... I'll bite... what is a Flight Indicator? Is the Flight pattern
different than the traffic pattern? Enquiring minds want to know...

Jon

wrote:

Hi,

Congratulations for your PPL license. Same with me, my wife finally
allow me to take a PPL lesson on my birthday this year. Probably she
was sick of me playing the Flight Simualtor every day after work. Ive
been playing that game for 15 yeras. In fact when I am joining this
school i was able to land the plane on my first day lesson. I believe
that I am able to finish the PPL program max in 48 hours. But the
program was already set up so I wont be able to be solo until flying
dual about 20 hours. That means it will take about 60-70 hours until I
can get my PPL. THey still have to teach me about reading the flight
Indicator which I already know and it will take 2 hours minimum. Its
just a procedure they said.
Do I need to find a different school ? or can I customize my own
program but of course has to be meet the FAA regulations.
For example, the school will teach me the Flight pattern and the radio
comm almost at the end of the lesson. I believe that is very important
and they have to teach on the second or thirt meeting, is that true? On
their program also have 1 hours just to learn slow flight, which I
already familiar with the procedure just learning from Flight sim.
On my first flight, I learn descent, Climb, Tuurn and Straight and
Level in 0.6 Hour and plus I land the airplane. All of those learned
from SIm.
Do you have an input or a better learning program that I can follow and
I can jsut show it to my instructure to follow your program?

Thank you for your help.





wrote:

My flying training has taken a long time, I guess.........

I started flying training in 1990, but lack of time and money meant
that I stopped after about 10 hours, before going solo.

Last year, my wife bought me a block of lessons for my birthday, and I
found that I hadn't forgotten everything. I was so pleased I carried on
iwth training, and last week I passed my flight test, and this morning
I passed my written, and I now hold a Canadian PPL.

The journey wasn't entirely without excitement. On my second-ever solo
I was rolling down the runway in a Cessna 150 waiting for rotation
speed - and it never came. By the time I realised the airspeed
indicator was not going to work, I was doing well over rotation speed
and ran out of rudder. The aircraft veered off the runway to the left
as I pulled the power, and it would have been an embarassing run across
the grass except for the runway sign........
Next I knew I was upside down, with fuel pouring down the windshield. I
had the presence of mind to switch off the mags and master, and the
fuel shutoff, and climbed out of the door, just as the fire trucks were
arriving. Fortunately, apart from a few nasty cuts and bruises, I was
relatively intact. I was even able to take part in a radio interview
(about something else) an hour later. And the nice chappy from the
Canadian Dept of Transport Accident branch who I had to speak to on the
phone was very understanding, as was my flying school chief instructor.
Examination off the written-off aircraft confirmed an orchard bee had
climbed into and blocked the pitot, and I was cleared of all blame,
though I'm sure if I'd had more experience, I would have avoided the
crash and simply been able to abort takeoff safely.
I decided that either I would get back in the air immediately, or I
never would again, so I had my next lesson the next morning, and soloed
again the following week.
I guess that was the most dramatic episode in my pilot training, but
there are so many memorable moments. The first solo, the first solo
away from the circuit, the first solo cross-country, the first power on
stall, the first landing at a tiny strip in the country.......

Anyway, it was all worthwhile in the quest for a lifetime dream for
this aging new pilot.........I'm very happy to join the club. And if
there is a message for anyone still in the middle of training -
perservere. You'll have some low moments (though not as low as mine, I
trust) but you'll get there in the end.

wrote:
My flying training has taken a long time, I guess.........
snip
Wow, I'm not sure I would have continued after that! Congratulations!