Class B VFR

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATcox.net wrote in message
...

In Class C VFR is separated from IFR by ATC and VFR is not necessarily
separated from VFR. It all boils down to the fact that in Bravo there is
just more positive control.


It was a VFR vs. IFR situation that was used to justify the reduced cloud
clearance requirement of Class B airspace.

Steven P. McNicoll schrieb:

It was a VFR vs. IFR situation that was used to justify the reduced cloud
clearance requirement of Class B airspace.

Source? Do you have the protocols of the ICAO meetings in which the
airspace class system was defined?

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...

Source?

My sourse is the previous messages in this thread. I suggest you read them.



Do you have the protocols of the ICAO meetings in which the airspace class
system was defined?


No. They're not needed for this discussion.

Matt Whiting wrote:

Correct, I'm in an out with just enough stop for fuel and a stretch
break.

This is an aside in your case, but Cleveland Hopkins (KCLE) used
to have a General Aviation Gate #1, on the far end of the one of
the 3 concourses. No fees nothing. I believe they took that one
down before 9/11, as gates can lately be worth 7-figures to air
carriers.

When elderly Mom & Dad used to visit from San Diego, it wasn't
that convenient to pick them up by my aircraft, as baggage
retrieval was very convenient to auto short-term parking.
However, in returning them to KCLE, it was really best we do this
by my 150 HP airplane -- home field adjacent to my house and
Hopkins 20 miles away. CLE Approach is no mind if you keep your
speed up to fit in with air carrier arrivals, and land on the
same parallel rwys they do. Thence, ask for Gate 1. If they were
booked on like TWA on the same concourse, from thence it was a
few gates walk for direct gate check-in with luggage, pilot/son
carrying all their stuff. Absolutely priceless!

Fred F.

It was a VFR vs. IFR situation that was used to justify the reduced cloud
clearance requirement of Class B airspace.

No, not to =justify= it, but to =illustrate= a correlation. It's an
easy illustration, but two VFRs coming around a cloud would not have
time to see each other either. That one's less likely to occur at any
given time, but in any case it is necessary for =all= aircraft to be
under positive control before cloud clearance can be reduced to "clear
of clouds". I'm sure there are other necessary conditions.

Jose
--
The monkey turns the crank and thinks he's making the music.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

TxSrv wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote:


Correct, I'm in an out with just enough stop for fuel and a stretch
break.


This is an aside in your case, but Cleveland Hopkins (KCLE) used to have
a General Aviation Gate #1, on the far end of the one of the 3
concourses. No fees nothing. I believe they took that one down before
9/11, as gates can lately be worth 7-figures to air carriers.

When elderly Mom & Dad used to visit from San Diego, it wasn't that
convenient to pick them up by my aircraft, as baggage retrieval was very
convenient to auto short-term parking. However, in returning them to
KCLE, it was really best we do this by my 150 HP airplane -- home field
adjacent to my house and Hopkins 20 miles away. CLE Approach is no mind
if you keep your speed up to fit in with air carrier arrivals, and land
on the same parallel rwys they do. Thence, ask for Gate 1. If they were
booked on like TWA on the same concourse, from thence it was a few gates
walk for direct gate check-in with luggage, pilot/son carrying all their
stuff. Absolutely priceless!

I've never seen such a thing before, but it certainly sounds like a neat
way to do things. I'm sure we'll never see such things again for both
the economic and security reasons.

The weather held and I ended up flying into KCAK. Had a real nice
flight, other than being long and boring. I still can't figure out this
requirement for a two-hour day and night VFR cross-country for someone
who has flown for 600 hours and is instrument rated, but it is what it
is. Had a lot of good discussion with my flight instructor though!

I visited Castle for fuel and they were great to deal with.

Matt

Here is what I do with a Class B airspace clearance:

I asked for it. I will not enter the airspace unless I hear, "N12345,
You are cleared into the Class Bravo" AND I then repeat "N12345 Cleared
into the Class Bravo. Thank you."

It's a couple extra words and may take an extra second, but the benefit
severely outweighs the risks.

Chris


Jim Burns wrote:
A simple hand off will not be sufficient. You most likely will not get the
clearance when handed off to the local approach control, remember they
control airspace well outside the Class B, but the same controller may be
working the outer ring of the Class B so don't assume just because you're
talking to the same controller that all is well and you can continue. Don't
enter the Class B without the clearance. You must receive the clearance and
as other's have said, you may wish to be proactive in obtaining the
clearance.
Jim

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 18:13:34 +0000, Roy Smith wrote:

I routinely get clearances to fly up or down the Hudson or the East River
at anywhere from 1500 to 6500, just for sightseeing. I'm much happier in
the CBAS at 1500 than on the CTAF at 1000. Hint, loop around Manhattan
clockwise (down the East River, up the Hudson) to give your pax a better
view.

I just tried this yesterday. The Terminal says to contact LGA, which is
what I recalled doing before. There was no answer on 119.95 (the charted
frequency for the north), so I dropped down and flew the exclusion zone
(which worked for my passengers as they really wanted to see the statue of
liberty).

Later, I checked my notes. The last time I did this, approach (whom I'd
tried to skip this time) on 120.8 passed me to the LGA frequency to the
south, according to the chart (120.7, if memory serves).

Why chart 119.95 if nobody's listening?

Next time, I'll start with approach.

- Andrew

P.S. How do you get to the east river? Last time I went down the
hudson and turned left over central park. That was a good
view. Is there better?

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 13:58:38 +0000, Matt Whiting wrote:

I still can't figure out this
requirement for a two-hour day and night VFR cross-country for someone who
has flown for 600 hours and is instrument rated, but it is what it is.
Had a lot of good discussion with my flight instructor though!

My instructor had me use pilotage and dead/ded rec. for these, on the
theory that I should do something VFR-ish and interesting.

It did add to the fun.

I'm actually less excited about the long XC. I avoid flying any
distance alone; it gets dull with nobody to whom to talk.

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:
I just tried this yesterday. The Terminal says to contact LGA, which is
what I recalled doing before. There was no answer on 119.95 (the charted
frequency for the north), so I dropped down and flew the exclusion zone
(which worked for my passengers as they really wanted to see the statue of
liberty).

If you're starting from the North, contact NY Approach on 126.4 around
the Tappan Zee Bridge. At 1500, you'll typically get handed off to
LaGuardia Tower around the GWB, and then to Newark Tower around midtown.

P.S. How do you get to the east river? Last time I went down the
hudson and turned left over central park. That was a good
view. Is there better?

Yeah, that's the typical route. Down the Hudson to the top of Central
Park, the over the middle of the park, pick up the East River
southbound, then around the tip of the Battery and up the Hudson.
Listen up, answer calls quickly, and follow instructions. Part of the
key to getting what you want is convincing the controller that you
won't cause him any problems.

It's pretty cool when you get a traffic call like, "757 at 6 O'Clock,
same direction, 500 feet below you -- you'll see him in a moment".