IFR in the Eastern Mountains

Does anyone disagree that there's a better way to say, ...*ONE LITTLE
MISTAKE WILL PUT ALL YOUR LIGHTS OUT?*

I disagree.

Sometimes, one needs a blunt instrument to get the message across to
pilots who think that they are immune from the laws of physics, or that
certain rules don't apply to them. A more subtle approach may easily
miss the target.

"Do this and you will probably die" is sometimes called for.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:

"Do this and you will probably die" is sometimes called for.

Some of the better FAA Safety Seminar presenters I've seen have used
that exact wording to make a point. G

As pilots, we really need to be aware that some situations are very
dangerous if not taken seriously, and we need to plan accordingly for a
safe outcome. Sugarcoating and downplaying risk isn't productive to
anyone involved.

Once our attention is gained, we are in a better position to safely
perform the action. Better to put in the extra effort and study and
have it be no big deal, then to gloss over things and wish you hadn't
later...

"Jose" wrote in message
t...
Does anyone disagree that there's a better way to say, ...*ONE LITTLE
snip

"Do this and you will probably die" is sometimes called for.

Jose
--
And always remember............

You can't get laid if you're dead!

Karl
"Curator" N185KG

You can be laid to rest.



"karl gruber" wrote in message
...
|
| "Jose" wrote in message
| t...
| Does anyone disagree that there's a better way to say,
....*ONE LITTLE
| snip
|
| "Do this and you will probably die" is sometimes called
for.
|
| Jose
| --
| And always remember............
|
| You can't get laid if you're dead!
|
| Karl
| "Curator" N185KG
|
|

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 10:10:14 -0400, "Kobra"
wrote:

My wife loves flying with me and she sees a trip in the airplane as a major
treat. We have flown together everywhere from Maine to the Bahamas. She is
also going to start lessons this Spring and she began the Cleared for
Takeoff CD ground school course.

Bahamas? What was the DVD for that like? Did it say anything about the
possibility of having to swim?

I live in the Eastern Mountains and have done most of my training and
flying here (TRI). These mountains should not be underestimated, but
they should not be objects of mindless fear. There are unique weather
conditions to be considered, but they're more of a problem for the VFR
pilot. Particular attention should be given to wind. A proficient IFR
pilot adhering to procedures should have little difficulty.

I've never been to Hot Springs, though I've flown over the area. I'm
more afraid of the prices than of the airport.

RK Henry

Kobra wrote:

As others state, why did you share it in the first place?


My wife loves flying with me and she sees a trip in the airplane as a major
treat. We have flown together everywhere from Maine to the Bahamas. She is
also going to start lessons this Spring and she began the Cleared for
Takeoff CD ground school course.

Whenever I buy a training DVD, as dry as they can be, she is excited to
watch them with me. I am lucky this way. But my only point to Mr. Collins
is that if you are going to immortalize your words on mass media about an
important subject near and dear, for God's sake, MAKE YOUR POINT, BUT CHOOSE
YOUR WORDS WITH SOME FORETHOUGHT.

Does anyone disagree that there's a better way to say, ...*ONE LITTLE
MISTAKE WILL PUT ALL YOUR LIGHTS OUT?* I don't think Barry Schiff, Rod
Machado or John King would blunder their words like that. I sense they have
more discretion and sophistication.

Don't get me wrong...I do like and respect Mr. Collins. I have most of his
videos, I read his articles in Flying Magazine and I admire him as an
aviator. I just think he needs to sand and polish some of his writings
before he commits them to permanency.

I disagree. Flying IFR in IMC in the mountains in the east is serious
business and shouldn't be sugar coated. As they say, if you can't take
the heat...


Matt

: I disagree. Flying IFR in IMC in the mountains in the east is serious
: business and shouldn't be sugar coated. As they say, if you can't take
: the heat...

Absolutely. With MEAs over WV around 6000', that pretty much rules out all
but thin stratus into VFR-on-top IFR days from October through April.

The mountain wave and turbulence should also not be underestimated. I've been
in VFR over BKW (Beckly, WV... only about 50 miles from my home base). I hit a layer
of IMC at about 6000', but there was plenty of VMC below. I got a clearance for
"practice." Within 10 minutes, my groundspeed went from about 100 kts to 55 kts, and
I was getting +-500fpm no matter what power settings I tried to use. At one point I
was in clear VMC and plenty of room below so I cancelled and flew the last 20 miles
VFR in 2500' ceilings.

VFR in only more dangerous in the "average" sense that a lot of the clear
weather might be associated with highs and gusty winds. IMC can also have ugly winds,
and the sink associated with the ridges can make a mess of you too.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************

IFR with mountains obscured and MEA above 6000 feet makes
single-engine and light multiengine a difficult trip since
loss of an engine will put you in the strato or
cumulogranite clouds. You can fly the light twin at cruise
several thousand feet above the MEA and drift down while
proceeding to a landing. But a plan is required.



wrote in message
...
|: I disagree. Flying IFR in IMC in the mountains in the
east is serious
| : business and shouldn't be sugar coated. As they say, if
you can't take
| : the heat...
|
| Absolutely. With MEAs over WV around 6000', that pretty
much rules out all
| but thin stratus into VFR-on-top IFR days from October
through April.
|
| The mountain wave and turbulence should also not be
underestimated. I've been
| in VFR over BKW (Beckly, WV... only about 50 miles from my
home base). I hit a layer
| of IMC at about 6000', but there was plenty of VMC below.
I got a clearance for
| "practice." Within 10 minutes, my groundspeed went from
about 100 kts to 55 kts, and
| I was getting +-500fpm no matter what power settings I
tried to use. At one point I
| was in clear VMC and plenty of room below so I cancelled
and flew the last 20 miles
| VFR in 2500' ceilings.
|
| VFR in only more dangerous in the "average" sense that a
lot of the clear
| weather might be associated with highs and gusty winds.
IMC can also have ugly winds,
| and the sink associated with the ridges can make a mess of
you too.
|
| -Cory
|
| --
|
|
************************************************** ***********************
| * Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA
*
| * Electrical Engineering
*
| * Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University
*
|
************************************************** ***********************
|

PS: This was a very bad commercial, but obviously I am selling the DVD.
Here is the Ebay link: http://tinyurl.com/ymkrwq

Other posters already gave good comments. This DVD is for pilots and
should slap you upside the head to tell you not to be an idiot and
kill yourself and others like Lidel did in NY by doing stupid things.
Learn from the DVD...don't slam the presenter. Otherwise you may
become another statistic.

Ron Lee

: I am thinking of a flight into Ingalls airport in Hot Springs, VA this Fall.
: It's elevation is 3,792' and has a 5000+ foot runway. It is surrounded by
: several washboard-like mountains. Look at the picture on airnav:
: http://tinyurl.com/yn6hrm Also click on this link to see a really nice
: hotel near the field: http://tinyurl.com/ygxfez

HSP is only about 50 miles from me... I've been there a number of times. If
you're looking to look at the leaves, you're already kinda late. The higher
elevations around here are pretty much already changed and dropped. The runway is
great, long, and wide, but there *are* some pretty hazardous air currents right off
the end of the runway. (Basically right off the end of the runway is a cliff that
drops probably at least 1000'... supposedly a few airplane wrecks can be found down
there).

Rules of the "mountains" here seem to be similar to out west, only less-so.
Density altitude can make a mess of you. Turbulence, lift, and sink can be a problem
in windy conditions (especially this time of year). Don't push the aircraft
performance envelope, and don't do anything stupid while clearing ridges and you'll be
fine. ... a good example of stupid would be coming in slow at HSP where you're very
likely to get sink off the end of the runway. Plenty of runway, so keep it fast.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss, Ph.D., PPSEL-IA *
* Electrical Engineering *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************