C172 lands in Brooklyn

1 - Will the pilot get fined (FAA, NTSB, NYPD, parks authority,
anyone)?

As Far as the FAA was concerned, he was simply (and successfully)
exercising his Pilot-in-Command power to bring is flight to a safe
conclusion after a minor emergency. The FAA specifically gives the
Pilot In Command final authority in all matters governing the safety of
his aircraft or people on the ground.

2 - How much does it cost to remove the wings from a Cessna and
transport it to the nearest airport?

Not sure about a Cessna... there are about two-dozen bolts which hold
the wings on to my piper... The Cessna is in better shape because the
landing gear are affixed to the fuselage, unlike my Piper which are
affixed to the wing, but I don't know how 'straightforward' the bolt
removal process is in the 172s. A couple hours of labor maybe, plus
the cost of the rental truck. Not horrible in either case (rough
guestimate ~500-750 bucks)

3 - Is the pilot's overconfidence-verging-on-arrogance ("non-event,"
"walk in the park") at all off-putting to others? (He sounds like an
arrogant jerk who should be thanking his lucky stars - but that's a
non-pilot's opinion.)

How is flawlessly performing the actions he's been trained to do
verging on arrogance? If anything, I applaud the pilot for (correctly)
playing down the situation. There is a general consensus among
non-pilots that loosing an engine = airplane falling from the sky...
its simply not true. We train for it... It happens, its a contingency
that we're expected to deal with if the situation arises.

The pilot seems to me to understand that local media would be trying to
blow this out of proportion like they do all aviation accidents... he
played it down as not a big deal because, well, it really isn't that
big a deal. Its not like he's looking to be called a hero, or basking
in the media attention, or anything like that - he did what he was
trained to do when something went wrong. Period, end of story.

That's hardly arrogance.

4 - Will his insurance go up?

Considering his aircraft was undamaged, and the process of removing the
wings, fixing the engine and re-assembling the aircraft are all
maintenence issues (not aircraft incidents, therefore not covered or
cared about by insurance), probably not.

There is a general consensus among
non-pilots that loosing an engine = airplane falling from the sky...

Well, loosing an enging could mean an engine falling out of the sky.
=That= has happened. Come to think of it, losing an engine could mean
the same thing.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Yeah, I suppose actually _loosing_ the engine might screw up your W/B
just a tad



On Nov 15, 12:40 pm, Jose wrote:
There is a general consensus among
non-pilots that loosing an engine = airplane falling from the sky...Well, loosing an enging could mean an engine falling out of the sky.
=That= has happened. Come to think of it, losing an engine could mean
the same thing.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On Nov 15, 2:14 pm, "EridanMan" wrote:

How is flawlessly performing the actions he's been trained to do
verging on arrogance? If anything, I applaud the pilot for (correctly)
playing down the situation. There is a general consensus among
non-pilots that loosing an engine = airplane falling from the sky...
its simply not true. We train for it... It happens, its a contingency
that we're expected to deal with if the situation arises.

I understand all that, and if he's secretly thanking his lucky stars
but putting on a face of equanimity for the press, then I applaud him,
too. But if I understand the situation correctly, if that park hadn't
been there, he would've been in a lot more trouble, right? Somewhere
else in the thread someone said the pilot has overdrawn his good luck
account for a while. In the face of such luck, I'd expect people to be
a bit humbler.

Marc

I think the 'Verrizano Narrows Crew Saved a pilots life" bit was a bit
of 'dramatic license' added by the media- it appears (based on google
earth, so I could be mistaken) that there are a number of fields in the
area suitable to land a light plane. He just happen to choose one that
was sitting on landfill from the bridge construction.

He lost an engine within range of a suitable put-down spot, and
successfully executed a power off, short field landing- textbook
example of what pilot's are trained to do if we're not within gliding
distance of an airport.

Pilot's are trained to keep 'back doors' in case of an emergency
situation- one of the first things you do during cross country
training is learn to be aware of the terrain below you, and to make
sure you always have a suitable landing field within gliding distance.
(this is one of the things that makes mountain flying more treacherous,
fwiw)...

He had his back door, he needed it, he used it... Its not arrogance,
its training.

-Scott


On Nov 16, 9:31 am, "Marc Adler" wrote:
On Nov 15, 2:14 pm, "EridanMan" wrote:

How is flawlessly performing the actions he's been trained to do
verging on arrogance? If anything, I applaud the pilot for (correctly)
playing down the situation. There is a general consensus among
non-pilots that loosing an engine = airplane falling from the sky...
its simply not true. We train for it... It happens, its a contingency
that we're expected to deal with if the situation arises.I understand all that, and if he's secretly thanking his lucky stars
but putting on a face of equanimity for the press, then I applaud him,
too. But if I understand the situation correctly, if that park hadn't
been there, he would've been in a lot more trouble, right? Somewhere
else in the thread someone said the pilot has overdrawn his good luck
account for a while. In the face of such luck, I'd expect people to be
a bit humbler.

Marc

Okay, I see. Thanks.

On Nov 16, 12:09 pm, "EridanMan" wrote:
I think the 'Verrizano Narrows Crew Saved a pilots life" bit was a bit
of 'dramatic license' added by the media- it appears (based on google
earth, so I could be mistaken) that there are a number of fields in the
area suitable to land a light plane. He just happen to choose one that
was sitting on landfill from the bridge construction.

He lost an engine within range of a suitable put-down spot, and
successfully executed a power off, short field landing- textbook
example of what pilot's are trained to do if we're not within gliding
distance of an airport.

Pilot's are trained to keep 'back doors' in case of an emergency
situation- one of the first things you do during cross country
training is learn to be aware of the terrain below you, and to make
sure you always have a suitable landing field within gliding distance.
(this is one of the things that makes mountain flying more treacherous,
fwiw)...

He had his back door, he needed it, he used it... Its not arrogance,
its training.

-Scott

On Nov 16, 9:31 am, "Marc Adler" wrote:

On Nov 15, 2:14 pm, "EridanMan" wrote:

How is flawlessly performing the actions he's been trained to do
verging on arrogance? If anything, I applaud the pilot for (correctly)
playing down the situation. There is a general consensus among
non-pilots that loosing an engine = airplane falling from the sky...
its simply not true. We train for it... It happens, its a contingency
that we're expected to deal with if the situation arises.I understand all that, and if he's secretly thanking his lucky stars
but putting on a face of equanimity for the press, then I applaud him,
too. But if I understand the situation correctly, if that park hadn't
been there, he would've been in a lot more trouble, right? Somewhere
else in the thread someone said the pilot has overdrawn his good luck
account for a while. In the face of such luck, I'd expect people to be
a bit humbler.

Marc

Marc Adler wrote:
On Nov 15, 2:14 pm, "EridanMan" wrote:

How is flawlessly performing the actions he's been trained to do
verging on arrogance? If anything, I applaud the pilot for (correctly)
playing down the situation. There is a general consensus among
non-pilots that loosing an engine = airplane falling from the sky...
its simply not true. We train for it... It happens, its a contingency
that we're expected to deal with if the situation arises.

I understand all that, and if he's secretly thanking his lucky stars
but putting on a face of equanimity for the press, then I applaud him,
too. But if I understand the situation correctly, if that park hadn't
been there, he would've been in a lot more trouble, right? Somewhere
else in the thread someone said the pilot has overdrawn his good luck
account for a while. In the face of such luck, I'd expect people to be
a bit humbler.

Marc

How much humbler could he have been? He said he did what he was trained
to do - explicitly dispelling the notion that he had accomplished
anything special. His alternative was to ditch in the ocean or lower
bay. Yeah - he had some luck, but where is the arrogance? I don't see it.

On Nov 17, 10:16 am, Bill Michaelson
Yeah - he had some luck, but where is the arrogance? I don't see it.

Calling it a "non-event" seems arrogant to me.

I would've expected something like, "I was just doing what I was
trained to do, but I was lucky to find that spot, that's for sure."

Marc

Marc Adler wrote:
On Nov 15, 6:10 am, Bill Michaelson wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/15/nyregion/15plane.html

A few questions.

1 - Will the pilot get fined (FAA, NTSB, NYPD, parks authority,
anyone)?

2 - How much does it cost to remove the wings from a Cessna and
transport it to the nearest airport?

3 - Is the pilot's overconfidence-verging-on-arrogance ("non-event,"
"walk in the park") at all off-putting to others? (He sounds like an
arrogant jerk who should be thanking his lucky stars - but that's a
non-pilot's opinion.)

4 - Will his insurance go up?

Thanks,
Marc

1. Not likely, he did nothing wrong.
2. Hard to say, couple of hundred dollars but it might be more, it's NY
3. Not at all. Pilots are trained from day one how to deal with a
potential off airport landing. He did exactly what he was trained to
do. His biggest lucky break was finding a large open park near the
city, else he would have put it down in the water. If your car breaks
down and you pull off to the side of the road do you feel arrogant
because you did as your were taught?
4. Maybe but not likely. Depends on what happened to the plane to make
the engine stop. The article pointed out that he had fuel so it sounds
like some sort of engine failure.

"Marc Adler" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Nov 15, 6:10 am, Bill Michaelson wrote:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/15/nyregion/15plane.html

A few questions.

1 - Will the pilot get fined (FAA, NTSB, NYPD, parks authority,
anyone)?

I doubt it. If the brakes went out in your car and you safely steered it
into an open field and had to have it towed do you think you should be
fined?



2 - How much does it cost to remove the wings from a Cessna and
transport it to the nearest airport?

Lot and lots.


3 - Is the pilot's overconfidence-verging-on-arrogance ("non-event,"
"walk in the park") at all off-putting to others? (He sounds like an
arrogant jerk who should be thanking his lucky stars - but that's a
non-pilot's opinion.)

He deserves to sound a little arrogant. He took a bad situation in a part of
the country not known for wide open spaces and safely landed. It wasn't his
lucky stars it was skill. He should be thanking the instructors he had over
the years and his own ability.





4 - Will his insurance go up?

Probably only if insurance pays for the wing removal and move.


Thanks,
Marc