Hope for the future

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 17:35:35 +0100, Thomas Borchert
wrote in
:


Between the discomfort of
commercial flying, and the famously less-than-welcoming attitude of
many Europeans,

And where exactly did you get that idea? What media in the US, for
example, would even report on the European attitude, no matter if it is
positive or negative? Fox "News"?

My experience with western Europeans has been, that generally folks
have the same basic interests and concerns as, and mostly act with the
same or better dignity and refinement as urban Americans. Of course
there are individuals who harbor a little larceny or chicanery, or are
grumpy about the indentation of tourists in their once homogenous
environs, but the vast majority are thoughtful, helpful, and
delightfully warm, and interesting.

In article .com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

The glamor of international travel is all but gone. Mary and I have
talked extensively about flying to Europe, but each time we consider
the agony of flying across the Atlantic with the kids in a cattle car
we decide to fly our own plane somewhere. Between the discomfort of
commercial flying, and the famously less-than-welcoming attitude of
many Europeans,

I can't argue with the agony of long flights in cramped quarters with
children, but have to disagree with the "less-than-welcoming attitude".
I've travelled in Eastern and Western Europe (as well as Africa and
Asia) and have rarely encountered anything but great hospitality. On
average, I'd rate the US near the bottom of the hospitality scale.
Smile, be polite, and roll with the punches and you and your hosts will
get along fine. The US offers great geographical variety, but it's more
of a treat to experience foods, languages, cultures, and goods well
outside what you're used to.

You haven't lived until you've tried to buy underwear at a South Korean
flea market on a Sunday night because the airline lost your luggage.
It's a hoot negotiating without the benefit of a common language with
a smiling guy who's eager to please and having as much fun with the
situation as you are. All this with background smells that let you know
your next meal is going to be a real adventure. :-)

--
Scott Post

In article .com,
"Jay Honeck" wrote:

The glamor of international travel is all but gone. Mary and I have
talked extensively about flying to Europe, but each time we consider
the agony of flying across the Atlantic with the kids in a cattle car
we decide to fly our own plane somewhere. Between the discomfort of
commercial flying, and the famously less-than-welcoming attitude of
many Europeans, it's just easier to spend our tourist dollar in the
Western hemisphere. God knows there are plenty of places we haven't
yet seen on our side of the pond that are reachable in Atlas.

An instrument rating and a visit from NW_Pilot can help you solve that
problem. You keep telling us how great ATLAS is, a trip across the pond
would really prove that. :-))

Jay Honeck schrieb:

the famously less-than-welcoming attitude of many Europeans

Today released:

Travelers rate America’s entry process as the “world’s worst” by greater
than a 2:1 margin over the next-worst destination area.
The U.S. ranks with Africa and the Middle East when it comes to
traveler-friendly paperwork and officials.
54 percent of international travelers say that immigration officials are
rude.
Travelers to the U.S. are more afraid of U.S. government officials than
the threat of terrorism or crime.
Two-thirds of travelers surveyed fear they will be detained at the
border because of a simple mistake or misstatement.


Source:

The Discover America Partnership/RT Strategies study of international
travelers was conducted between October 25th and November 9th, 2006.
2,011 non-U.S. resident international travelers were surveyed,
representing 15+ countries worldwide. Half of those travelers had
visited the U.S. since September 11, 2001; the other half had not
visited the U.S. since September 11, 2001.

http://www.poweroftravel.org/release-11-20-06.aspx


So much about the "famously less-than-welcoming attitude"

Stefan

Travelers rate America's entry process as the "world's worst" by greater
than a 2:1 margin over the next-worst destination area.

Well, duh. After a country has been successfully attacked by foreign
nationals using airliners as weapons, did you expect to be welcomed
with open arms at the airport, without paperwork or security?

It's actually rather unusual that foreign tourists are being allowed in
the country at all. Throughout US history, tourism has been shut down
during war time. (Necessary aviation content: So has general
aviation, by the way.)

But all that's beside the point. In a country where most of our states
are larger than France -- and there are 50 of them -- there is more to
see and do here than any one person can accomplish in a lifetime.

But I'm gonna try!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

These rewards have been substantially eroded
over the years though, particularly in recent
(post-911) years.

Well, yes, but the hassle of flying commercially has increased far more
than the hassle of flying onesself (except in the DC area). My wife is
far more inclined even on longer trips now to propose taking the little
airplane rather than the aluminum tube.

While safety concerns have increased, ways to deal with them have too.
GPS and Nexrad are examples of this.

I don't think people are "stressed to death about the responsibility
they take on every time they climb out of bed". CYA is more built into
people's MO nowadays, but not in a stressful way (except perhaps as the
recipient).

An activity has to be fun and rewarding for it to be pursued. It still is.

Jose
--
"Never trust anything that can think for itself, if you can't see where
it keeps its brain." (chapter 10 of book 3 - Harry Potter).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article ,
says...


These rewards have been substantially eroded
over the years though, particularly in recent
(post-911) years.

Well, yes, but the hassle of flying commercially has increased far more
than the hassle of flying onesself (except in the DC area). My wife is
far more inclined even on longer trips now to propose taking the little
airplane rather than the aluminum tube.



I do agree with this somewhat.
Certainly, the fact tht you have to just about strip naked to get on a plane
today, and you have to wait for hours as everyone else does the same is going
to be a big advantage for business aviation. (Not to mention the fact that
the threat of truly being blown out of the sky, while still remote, has
become more realistic - which may tip the scales for some CEO's, or their
risk-management departments).

But this still doesn't change the fact that it's really hard to eek any
demonstrable utility out of private aviation today. If your calculation
includes any cost-to-benefit consideration at all then you're right out the
window. If cost is of little concern, or pleasure is great enough to justify
it, then you still have to weigh-in the time and hassle to and from the
airports - and in many cases in the US it would simply be more convenient,
as Jay says, to drive it.

In Europe, the fast trains, combined with good roads, plus now the fact that
you can put your car on the train, is rapidly making even commercial aviation
obsolescent, let alone private flying, which is relegated pretty much to a
leisure activity.

GF

Greg Farris wrote in
:

Certainly, the fact tht you have to just about strip naked to get on a
plane today, and you have to wait for hours as everyone else does the

If you know the rules, the process of going through security at the
airlines is not that different than it was 10 years ago. You take your
computer and put it in a tray. You take your ziploc of shaving cream and
toothpaste samples and put it in a tray, with your phone and your wallet
and your shoes, and walk through the metal detector. It's really not all
that complicated. And taking off your shoes isn't quite stripping naked.

The problem is there are still way too many people who either don't know
the rules, or don't care, causing the lines to be unusually long and
increasing the time required to get to the airport to ensure you'll get
through in time. Just the other day, my associate related to me this
experience from earlier in the week as he went through security at EWR:

Walking down the lanes to the security counter, they stop everyone and
remind them to put their liquids in ziplocks, which they offer.

A woman about 4 ahead of him put her bag on the belt. "Is this your bag?"
Sure enough the TSA officer pulls out a 20oz bottle of shampoo and another
of conditioner. As the line comes to a standing halt, he explains to the
woman that she can't bring these on the plane. Several minutes pass by as
she objects, and he continues to tell her she can either forfeit them or go
and check them. Finally, she decides to go and check them.

The next woman in the line has a very similar conversation with the
security officer about her makeup... And similarly, the 3rd woman in the
line.

By the time the fourth woman in the line gets there and starts her , he
wants to yell at her and ask her if she was sleeping for the last 10
minutes while the 3 woman in front of her just went through the same thing.

By contrast, I flew on a USAir Shuttle from LGA. The USAir Shuttle has a
separate security line that rarely has long lines. The people who take the
USAir Shuttle are typically flying back and forth on a regular basis, and
so they know the rules and know the procedures.

They have their laptops in their hands before they get to the tray tables,
and they pop their stuff into the trays and make their way through. I was
through security and at my gate in about 5 minutes like "the good ole
days".

But this still doesn't change the fact that it's really hard to eek any
demonstrable utility out of private aviation today. If your calculation
includes any cost-to-benefit consideration at all then you're right out
the window. If cost is of little concern, or pleasure is great enough to
justify it, then you still have to weigh-in the time and hassle to and
from the airports - and in many cases in the US it would simply be
more convenient, as Jay says, to drive it.

It depends on how you value your time, and what you mean by private
aviation. If you are talking about spending thousands of dollars to fly on
a chartered jet, you're probably right. But quite frankly, I frequently
save both time and money as compared with the airlines when I fly in a
Bonanza (or even an Arrow) within about 500 miles from my home airport.
This is especially true when compared to commercial flights that include
multiple legs, especially when the hub is a big one that always encounters
delays - like ORD or IAD. I can't tell you how many times I missed a
connection and it cost me more hours than I care to think about. In fact,
on my return trip on Friday, I was delayed 3 hours because my connection
was through ORD was delayed. Weather was not an issue, the delay was caused
by "Air Traffic Control".

I've never had a 3 hour delay by ATC in the Bonanza....