Cellphone use

Kev writes:

There was one particular report that stuck in my mind. It was a
flight trying to use the autoland feature in almost zero visibility
conditions. They reported that each time they got close to the ground
the autopilot would go wacky and try to drop them in. They aborted
landing twice and finally the copilot went back to the first-class
section (I think 747 upper deck) and noticed that a lady was trying to
call her friends each time to say they were landing! He made her turn
the phone off and they landed okay on the third try.

I would be wary of using anything that is designed to transmit radio
waves near avionics unless it were certified for such use, so cellular
telephones do make me uneasy.

The irrational prohibitions are those against devices that are not
transmitters, such as laptops, GPS receivers, and the like. But most
air crews haven't a clue in this domain so they ride on superstition;
some airlines do the same.

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Judah writes:

Not much different than the "Seatbacks Upright" thing. Do you really think
it is a critical safety hazard that if the crew needs to evacuate the
passengers, the average person won't be able to navigate their way past
the 2" tilt of the seat in front of them.

Yes.

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Judah writes:

So in other words, if the plane goes slamming into the ground at 150 Knots
(at least), the 2 extra inches of foam seat in my face is going to make
the difference between life or death?

Like I said, some people don't take things seriously.

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Ok I am flying my plane at 12,000 feet and the phone might talk to
several towers, thats frowned upon. Now, I hike about 2 miles and climb
the Grand Teton mountian to almost 14,000 feet, use my phone and it's
ok. I am getting confused again. G
Jim Macklin wrote:
It is an FCC rule because cellphone tower are designed to
pick up a limited number of calls and at altitude the towers
are over-loaded.



"pittss1c" wrote in message
...
|I know there are regs against cellphone usage in aircraft.
| I was wondering... has anyone ever known someone to get
busted?
| If so... what happened to them?
|
| Mike

wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok I am flying my plane at 12,000 feet and the phone might talk to
several towers, thats frowned upon. Now, I hike about 2 miles and climb
the Grand Teton mountian to almost 14,000 feet, use my phone and it's
ok. I am getting confused again. G

Well, a) you probably won't get very good phone reception at 12,000' AGL,
and b) cells are designed taking the terrain into account. Assuming you get
cell reception at the peak of Grand Teton Mt, it's because the cellular
network was designed with that location in mind, and specifically does not
have too many towers serving that location.

Mxsmanic wrote:
pittss1c writes:

I know there are regs against cellphone usage in aircraft.

Note that that are FCC regulations, not FAA regulations.

Only partially correct. There are two issues.
The FAA has rules that cover all electronic devices. It requires
the operator to determine they are acceptable (with certain blanket
exceptions).

The FCC has a rule against airborne cell phone use ONLY for the
800 MHz AMPS band. This was primarily established to protect
the systems from interference. Since nobody is really using
analog cellular much anymore (the FCC no longer requires the
carriers in the 800 MHz band to provide any analog compatility)
the law is largely obsolete.

The FCC is
considering lifting them under intense commercial pressure to allow
cellphone use aloft, even though most air travellers are apparently
opposed to the idea of lifting the ban.

Actually, the FAA is getting a lot of heat to allow it. Unfortunately,
many of the digital services (like GSM) just don't work at altitude.
In the old analog days not that long ago (hence the guys on flight 93)
it did work, but it chewed up a lot of system capacity.

The FAA allows airlines and pilots (of GA aircraft) to ban the use of
electronic devices that may interfere with the safety of the flight,

More specifically it REQURIES THEM TO FORBID THEM.

but it doesn't specifically forbid or allow individual items, with a
handful of exceptions.

Actually, there is serious industry pressure to add cell phones to the
list of exemptions.

Mxsmanic wrote:

The irrational prohibitions are those against devices that are not
transmitters, such as laptops, GPS receivers, and the like. But most
air crews haven't a clue in this domain so they ride on superstition;
some airlines do the same.


You would think that the digital cell phones would be low power
enough, yet my GSM cell phones have always annoyed the hell out
of come low level audio (portable MP3 player docks and the like).
The sound is pretty distinctive. It's even gotten into my airplane
audio. It's a reminder for me to shut off my phone.

Jim Macklin wrote:
It is an FCC rule because cellphone tower are designed to
pick up a limited number of calls and at altitude the towers
are over-loaded.

Well the issue is that in analog cellular there are a finite
amount of talk channels and they use spatial diversity and
adaptively reducing power to reuse the channels in a metropolitan
area. A plane at altitude even at minimum power is heard equally
well over a wide number of base stations.

Of course, it's more involved now with digital modulations.

Ron Natalie writes:

You would think that the digital cell phones would be low power
enough, yet my GSM cell phones have always annoyed the hell out
of come low level audio (portable MP3 player docks and the like).
The sound is pretty distinctive. It's even gotten into my airplane
audio. It's a reminder for me to shut off my phone.

I think that interference comes from chip-modulation RFI in the phone.
I note that it's extremely sensitive to distance, which implies that
it has nothing to do with the actual transmitted energy. Laptops and
other types of computers also generate this kind of audio-frequency
interference. I don't think it bothers most avionics, but I'm not
sure (which means that I'd avoid it).

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writes:

Ok I am flying my plane at 12,000 feet and the phone might talk to
several towers, thats frowned upon.

At least in GSM, this doesn't actually happen. The telephone rapidly
zeroes in one one base station, and stays with it until power
requirements dictate a handoff (I can't remember if the receiver or
the base station initiates the handoff). It doesn't talk continuously
with multiple base stations, even if multiple stations are in range
(and typically multiple stations _are_ in range, even on the ground).

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