Opinions please, preferred pattern joining methods

Fly an extra 10 miles? For what purpose? Just enter the left downwind
and land. Don't make this more difficult than it has to be. The more
time you spend in the terminal area the more risk you have.



wrote:
But the first seems much more manoeuvring, possible preventing as good
a look out as the second option. I'm actually wondering if the second
seems more practicle.

Stan

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 15:26:54 -0800, "Bob Gardner"
wrote:


I like your first solution better than the second. Having said that, neither
the regs nor the AIM provide much guidance in the situation you describe.
Look at Advisory Circular 90-66A for more relevant information.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
. ..

Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I've two thoughts:

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

Opinions?

Stan

"Bob Gardner" wrote:
Same thing applies at many controlled fields. Ask the controller for
permission to cross the airport and you will most likely be told to cross
midfield at 2500 feet or so...that's the way they do it at Seattle-Tacoma,
anyway. Hard to hit a jet when it has its wheels on the runway and you are
way up there.

Yup, that's what they do around here. Ask to transition LaGuardia, and
they'll have you fly directly over the tower at 1500 feet. I've had them
do similar at Newark and Kennedy.

At White Plains, they'll often give spam cans closed traffic on 29 while
running jets on 34; they just ask you to keep your downwind in tight,
passing right over the numbers of 34.

"Roy Smith" wrote in message =
...
"Bob Gardner" wrote:
Same thing applies at many controlled fields. Ask the controller for=20
permission to cross the airport and you will most likely be told to =
cross=20
midfield at 2500 feet or so...that's the way they do it at =
Seattle-Tacoma,=20
anyway. Hard to hit a jet when it has its wheels on the runway and =
you are=20
way up there.
=20
Yup, that's what they do around here. Ask to transition LaGuardia, =
and=20
they'll have you fly directly over the tower at 1500 feet. I've had =
them=20
do similar at Newark and Kennedy.
=20
At White Plains, they'll often give spam cans closed traffic on 29 =
while=20
running jets on 34; they just ask you to keep your downwind in tight,=20
passing right over the numbers of 34.

Occasionally I fly IFR into Spirit of St. Louis Airport from the east,
and it's rare NOT to be vectored squarely across Lambert Field,
continuing outward south-westerly until getting further vectors to KSUS.
Once, in VMC, I was asked to cross "the building with the big blue =
roof"!

Depends on what the weather is, and if there is VFR traffic. If it is
IFR conditions and no VFR traffic is observed, then circle anyway as you
please, while looking out for traffic.

If there are other VFR traffic, I don't like either of your options. Too
much maneuvering for the first option, and it is best to avoid straight-
ins when there is VFR traffic.

I would fly slightly west to intercept the extended downwind and merge
with the traffic.

Alternatively, you could fly south, pass overhead and turn directly
downwind. I wouldn't do the descending 225-degree right. Way too much
maneuvering near the traffic pattern. You could do this if you go a few
miles out, but you are wasting time and fuel on something that could be
accomplished quite easily and safely.




wrote in news:cfiqv0hgqs3mic8c9hr1cv87rpeiikqji2@
4ax.com:

Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I've two thoughts:

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

Opinions?

Stan

Bob,

The AC you referenced AC 90-66a says in "7. GENERAL OPERATING PROCEDURES
....E. The FAA encourages pilots to use the standard traffic pattern.
However, for those pilots who choose to execute a straight-in approach ,
maneuvering..." I believe that this clearly indicates that the 45 entry is
the standard traffic pattern and that the straight-in is an exception to the
standard.

Perhaps my 2005 AIM differs from your AIM. The note under 4-3-3 "Examples
Key to traffic pattern operations 1. Enter pattern in level flight, abeam
the midpoint of the runway, at pattern altitude..." supports the entry we
both think is best.

In my 2005 AIM
4-3-4 is "Visual Indicators ar Airports Without an Operating Control Tower".
4-3-3 is "Traffic Patterns".

I thank you for your reference to AC 90-66a which I have read and since we
both agree on the best entry don't see much value in arguing about the
justification for that opinion especially since the Original Poster asked
for "Opinions."

I will, since I respect your opinion, let you have the last word, if you
choose, and will read what you have to say and then drop the matter.

Daniel

What you are missing is that 4-3-2 deals with application of traffic
pattern indicators, period. Look at the note near 4-3-1 to see what the
writers of the AIM say about traffic pattern entries.

Bob

"Daniel L. Lieberman" wrote in message
...
Bob,

Perhaps I am misunderstanding something but Figure 4-3-2 of the 2005 AIM
Shows only one entry to the pattern.

That is what you suggested. The straight in (his second choice) is
probably more dangerous. I would be concerned about the possibility of
(if there is an Instrument Approach to 36) someone coming in behind or
above me.

I will look up the AC you referenced in an attempt to learn more. I know
one of the local DPEs might fail the straight in since he says the PTS
incorporates the AIM.

Daniel


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
I like your first solution better than the second. Having said that,
neither the regs nor the AIM provide much guidance in the situation you
describe. Look at Advisory Circular 90-66A for more relevant information.

Bob Gardner

wrote in message
...
Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I've two thoughts:

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

Opinions?

Stan






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wrote:
Just wondering how many pilots prefer to just make the simplest
entry,
minimizing time manoeuvring in the pattern, and perhaps being safer on
the whole

That is what my last instructor taught me, and what the local FAA Safety
Counselor (who's also a CFII) recommends.

Extra maneuvering near an airport increases collision risk. Flying all
over the county just to achieve the sacred 45 degree downwind entry is
silly and dangerous.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Bob Gardner" wrote:
Then flying away from the pattern and descending to pattern altitude
well away from the pattern is the safest solution to the problem you
posed.

What's the point of that? That requires more turns at low altitude near
an airport, increasing collision exposure.

Join the pattern as expeditiously as possible (always following
right-of-way rules) and get it on the ground.

Crossing midfield at pattern altitude gives a good view of the pattern
and the windsock and sets you up for an simple turn to the downwind.

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"Andrew Sarangan" wrote:

Too
much maneuvering for the first option,

Yup.

and it is best to avoid straight-
ins when there is VFR traffic.

Why? If you're approaching from a direction that is straight in to your
runway, what would be safer--flying all over the area to set up for a
downwind?

--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

wrote in message
...
Consider you're NE of the airfield, non towered airport, runway 18/36,
standard left pattern applies, with runway 36 the active. I'm
interested in hearing what your personal method of joining the pattern
would be, while adhering to the FAR's and AIM.

I guess you could do an abbreviated version of the overhead join, whereby
you descend on the dead side (on the east) and then when you get to circuit
height, cross the northern end of the runway, effectively joining the
circuit on the crosswind leg. Normally with an overhead join to a left-hand
circuit you'd be approaching from the "live" side of the circuit at 2,000
feet or so, but as you're on the dead side already, this doesn't apply.

Fly south, then west, pass overhead the field, and then 2 or 3 miles
later do a descending 225 degree right turn, and join on a 45 degree
to downwind, or

Probably not favourable, as you're in the vicinity of traffic in the circuit
but as you're in a right turn, you won't have a particularly good view in
the direction you're turning (particularly if you have a high-wing
aircraft). All you need is for someone to be doing what my instructor used
to call "V-bomber circuits" (i.e. not keeping them tight and close in) and
you're in a potentially sticky spot. With the crosswind join you're already
flying in the direction of the circuit when you start, and the main lookout
will be for departing traffic, which until you get to the runway will be
forward of your nine o'clock. If you converge onto the downwind from 45
degrees you'll be looking over your left shoulder to try to spot people,
which isn't ideal.

Stay east and then south of the airport, and join a straight in
outside 5 sm.

That's probably the nicest way. Actually the absolute nicest way would be to
join on a right-hand downwind (we often have both directions working at once
at my home field), but in a non-ATC situation you would want to stick with
the official way.

D.

"David Cartwright" wrote in message
...

All you need is for someone to be doing what my instructor used to call
"V-bomber circuits" (i.e. not keeping them tight and close in) and you're
in a potentially sticky spot.

Was he British?