Wind limits - small single engine aircraft

Thanks for all the insights.

I flew today rather than yesterday, and it was lovely and smooth
(despite an AIRMET for moderate turbulence), with low winds. My pax,
both of whom were a little nervous, loved it, especially the perfect
greaser at the end.

My lesson learned? You may as well fly in good conditions if you have
the choice, especially with first-time pax.

Tom


mike regish wrote:
Your instructor was wrong. Seriously wrong, at that.

mike

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message
...

I have never looked it up, but my first instructor asserted that it was
the
amount of crosswind in which it was demonstrated that the (tricycle gear)
aircraft would safely complete a landing without any crosswind correction
being applied.

Peter

On 21 Jan 2007 17:23:38 -0800, wrote:

Thanks for all the insights.

I flew today rather than yesterday, and it was lovely and smooth
(despite an AIRMET for moderate turbulence), with low winds. My pax,
both of whom were a little nervous, loved it, especially the perfect
greaser at the end.

My lesson learned? You may as well fly in good conditions if you have
the choice, especially with first-time pax.

Tom



good decision.
you should never terrify the passengers.

the thing I get bothered with when people ask about being "scared" is
that there are not really that many scary situations in aviation.
there are occasionally situations that require focus, a cool nerve and
a functioning mind.

being "scared" implies that you have surrendered to fear and have
ceased functioning mentally. the result of ceasing to function
mentally in a stressful situation can mean that a flyable situation
has become a fatal accident.

beyond the understanding, beyond the self discipline, beyond all those
things that make a person into a good pilot, if you can educate your
mind to continue functioning in difficult situations then you will
stand out as a cool thinker in times of stress and you will be well on
the way to becoming a superb pilot.

note that in none of this have I said that stressful situations are
easy, quite the opposite in fact and that is why we spend so much time
in managing the environment to avoid them.

tailwinds!
Stealth Pilot

========================================
§ 23.233 Directional stability and control.

(a) A 90 degree cross-component of wind velocity, demonstrated to be safe
for taxiing, takeoff, and landing must be established and must be not less
than 0.2 VSO.
======================================

It is not even close to being a limitation.


Most interesting, and I should have read it before. In any case, it debunks
a lot of stories from a lot of sources.

Peter

I generally don't mind either gusty conditions or crosswind conditions
(up to my personal limit of 15kts of x-wind component). Now, although
I've never been "scared," I have been a few demanding conditions in my
Cherokee - the toughest was a landing with winds @32G40 and variable
from 10 - 30 degrees off the centerline.


Mike

Stealth wrote :
wrong wrong wrong!
if the certification test flight is done in nil wind and there isnt a
windy day available for ages then the design may have a low or no
demonstrated crosswind component ....for the simple fact that there
wasnt a crosswind available.

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Ron Rosenfeld quoted chapter and verse.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)


--
JGalban
Posted at www.flight.org

wrote in message
oups.com...
snip
I guess as an aside, what are the scariest windy conditions you've ever
flown in? Would you do it again?

I was on a short cross country from the NE panhandle of Texas to Amarillo,
that is in the middle of the panhandle. Halfway there flight service called
me and said Amarillo was 50 gusting to 70. I landed at Borger. I literally
had zero ground speed at touch down in a Cessna 150. Fortunately the wind
was straight down the runway. Absolutely no cross wind at all. A couple of
nice guys came out and held down my wings for me to taxi in and tie down.

Danny Deger


Thanks

Tom

"Stealth Pilot" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 10:31:32 -0500, Jake Brodsky
wrote:


snip

(for the humour impaired I will explain.
if it is marginal dont go.
the last beer you drink will see you avoiding the weather for another
8 hours :-) )


Or to put it another way, "I would rather be down here wishing I was up
there than up there wishing I was down here!!

Danny Deger

wrote in message
oups.com...
I was wondering what people view as their limitations in terms of wind.
I'm talking 172 / Warrior territory here.

Clearly this is a personal decision, based on your perceptions of your
own skills, the aircraft you are flying, the specific conditions on the
day (E.g. how gusty, reports of LLWS & turbulence), your risk
tolerance, etc.

But I'm interested in what the various opinions are. How much wind is
too much to fly, for you? And how much crosswind component? Does your
max crosswind component vary with windspeed? And how about how gusty it
is? Clearly if it's more gusty that's a bad thing, but how gusty is too
gusty?

Of course I have my own views on this but I'm wondering what others
think. And by the way the context is that I have decided to cancel my
flight tomorrow (Boston area) due to winds, but I'm still hoping to fly
on Sunday.

I guess as an aside, what are the scariest windy conditions you've ever
flown in? Would you do it again?

Thanks

Tom


Watch out for hangers that are close to the runway. You get your trusty
craft all lined up, then the turbulent air from the hangers hits and you are
all over the place.

Danny Deger

On Sat, 20 Jan 2007 22:05:40 +0900, Stealth Pilot
wrote:

On 19 Jan 2007 22:53:33 -0800, wrote:

I was wondering what people view as their limitations in terms of wind.
I'm talking 172 / Warrior territory here.

Clearly this is a personal decision, based on your perceptions of your
own skills, the aircraft you are flying, the specific conditions on the
day (E.g. how gusty, reports of LLWS & turbulence), your risk
tolerance, etc.



if you cant fly with the windsock horizontal you'd better not try
flying crosscountry because one day you will find it horizontal and at
the end of a long flight you might not have enough fuel to go anywhere
else.

Why not?

If the pilot knows the fuel burn and how long they've been airborn
there is no excuse for running out of fuel.

I'm paranoid about fuel. If the destination ever even looked close to
cutting into reserves I'd land early and either top off the tanks or
at least add enough to get to the destination with ample fuel reserve.



there is no bravado to flying in strong winds. it is just difficult
and demanding flying. it can be done though.

do you know how to guess at the wind speed from the windsock angle?
its a useful skill.

Stealth (windsock horizontal in any direction) Pilot
Australia
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

I had a cross wind experience some years ago that might be worth
describing. I don't remember the airport -- somewhere in IL, I think.
I was flying my Mooney in a fairly strong crosswind at this single
runway airport. I didn't pay attention to the large barn near the
approach end of the runway on the upwind side. It was my first time
into this field,and it took an impressive crab angle to fly along the
extended centerline on approach.

Like a good little pilot as I started the flare I shoved in rudder to
get aimed down the centerline, cranked in some opposite yoke to keep
me over it, and some feet above the runway the wind just stopped! It
eddied around that damn barn, changed from a crosswind with a headwind
component to a tail wind -- we dropped out of the sky. There was no
damage to the airplane (to my surprise). Guys at the FBO told me that
was a common experience there, they like to watch first timers land.
You'd think they'd have said something on UNICOM.

Lesson learned -- the next time in I landed long. Second lesson
learned. If you're a fraction of a mile from touchdown and the nose of
the airplane is pointing somewhere well to the side of the runway, in
addition to looking at the runway, look at where the nose is pointing.
If there's something big there, near the approach end, think about
what the wind might be doing, and plan your touchdown accordingly. An
effective wind change of 10 or so knots can change a well planned
landing into something not quite so nice. I don't know it for a fact,
but I'd suspect a dense corpse of tall trees could have the same
effect.


, . (, becauOn Jan 20, 1:53 am, wrote:
I was wondering what people view as their limitations in terms of wind.
I'm talking 172 / Warrior territory here.

Clearly this is a personal decision, based on your perceptions of your
own skills, the aircraft you are flying, the specific conditions on the
day (E.g. how gusty, reports of LLWS & turbulence), your risk
tolerance,

But I'm interested in what the various opinions are. How much wind is
too much to fly, for you? And how much crosswind component? Does your
max crosswind component vary with windspeed? And how about how gusty it
is? Clearly if it's more gusty that's a bad thing, but how gusty is too
gusty?

Of course I have my own views on this but I'm wondering what others
think. And by the way the context is that I have decided to cancel my
flight tomorrow (Boston area) due to winds, but I'm still hoping to fly
on Sunday.

I guess as an aside, what are the scariest windy conditions you've ever
flown in? Would you do it again?

Thanks

Tom