Icy Runways

Jay Honeck wrote:

If in fact your fixed landing gear is stout. I would much rather be in
my Bo than in say a Cessna 120, 140, 170, 180, 185, Luscombe, etc.
There's a good reason the Pponk people came out with a gear mod for some
of those those planes.


Well, generally speaking, a structure that is designed to fold is going
to be inherently weaker than one that is not. There are certainly ways
to minimize this problem, but a solid piece of steel is going to be
stronger than a similar-sized one that has a hinge (or three) built
into it.

That is true if you fix the weight to be the same. If weight isn't
constrained, then there is nothing "inherently" stronger in fixed gear
vs. retractable. One can design the gear for any level of strength
desired. I do believe it would be impossible to build a retractable
landing gear as strong as fixed gear using the same materials and weight.

Matt

Peter Dohm wrote:



Is is hard to find a stronger system than the Bo's trailing links.



The Bo doesn't have trailing link gear. It's a standard strut like
you'd see on the nose of a 182.

Agreed on the patchy runway. When I was a new PP, I was
flying out of SPI in a Beech Musketeer. Runway 22 was icy
and there was no wind. It was a wide runway, 7,000 feet
long used by the ANG F84F.

On landing, after about 500 feet of roll, the airplane yawed
about 40° to the left. I gave it full right rudder and full
power and it straightened out. I was not using any brakes
on the landing, just using the rudder for directional
control and letting distance slow the airplane.

When I got to the ramp and did a post-flight inspection I
found a big flat spot on the left tire [which was brand
new]. It had gone through 4 or 5 plies of the 6 ply tire.

What happened wasn't crosswind, it was a brake malfunction
that resulted in an AD note for the parking brake valve
vibration into the applied position while in-flight.

On the icy runway, the sliding locked wheel just slide and
the unlocked wheel was probably rolling. But when it hit a
dry spot the plane yawed, the tire almost blew and an AD was
born.



"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
news | Jay Honeck wrote:
| And people wonder why I moved to the Desert SW.
| Winds today, 20G40.
|
|
| Icy runways or taxiways are definitely not fun. Flyling
on icy runways
| makes one truly appreciate the stoutness of fixed
landing gear.
|
| When you can't do a run-up without sliding, you know
it's gonna be a
| fun flight...
|
| I don't mind icy runways. The ones I don't like are ones
that are part
| ice and part asphalt. If they are all ice or hard packed
snow, you can
| make the takeoff and landing roll in a crab and not stress
the gear much
| at all. It is only if you had a bare patch that things
can get ugly. I
| used to fly a lot on snow covered runways in fairly strong
winds and it
| was a piece of cake as long as the runway was ALL snow or
ice.
|
|
| Matt

("Newps" wrote)
The snow cover has little, if anything, to do with the daytime temps and
nothing at all with nighttime temps.


"Unsend"
"Unsend"


Montblack-ice

Newps may be considering time constants and thermal masses

Don

On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 01:40:03 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio
wrote:

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From: Newps

The snow cover has little, if anything, to do with the daytime temps and
nothing at all with nighttime temps.

I think I gotta disagree with that.
Here in New England, we get solar radiation of about 500 btu/sq ft/day
(horizontal plate) in January.
Snow reflects about 70% of that back into space.
Green/brown reflect about 30%.
70% - 30% =40%
40% of 500 = 200 btu/sq ft/day difference in surface heat.
A gallon of gas is about 120k btu.
120k/200 = 600 = sq ft needed to "generate" the heat of a gallon of
gas over the course of a day.

So the difference in heat gain of snow vs vegitation is about equivalent to
burning a gallon of gas, over the course of a day, on every 25' x 25' section
of land.

I find it hard to believe that a gallon of gas burning on every 25' square section
of Massachusetts would have " little, if anything, to do with the daytime temps"


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Nomen Nescio wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

From: Newps

The snow cover has little, if anything, to do with the daytime temps and
nothing at all with nighttime temps.


I think I gotta disagree with that.
Here in New England, we get solar radiation of about 500 btu/sq ft/day
(horizontal plate) in January.


You have a website with that information?

Don Tuite wrote:

Newps may be considering time constants and thermal masses



Ah yep.

Looks just like the ice "The Little French Girl" slipped on two years
ago and separated her shoulder as she reached out to grab the strut
while preflighting the 182. :-))

Yep. Every year, about this time, we have to re-learn the "duck walk"
so that we don't kill ourselves on the ice...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Roger" wrote in message
...
...
Right now the only place I could get enough traction to do a runup
would be in the hangar.

It turns out that that is not always a real good idea...

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

On 1/22/2007 6:27:21 PM, Newps wrote:

The Bo doesn't have trailing link gear. It's a standard strut like
you'd see on the nose of a 182.

Perhaps he was thinking of the Sundowner?

--
Peter