SSA Convention - Memphis

Winch launching should be a standard feature at every such convention!

Mike Schumann

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message
...
I agree with what Tim said.

However, it should be noted that not every member attends every
convention. I tend to go every three or four years and then only if it is
in the western US. If it were to be held bi-annually, this may mean that
I go only every five or six years. A risk is that with bi-annual
conventions, regions would step in and hold off-year affairs that vendors
might feel compelled to attend which would increase their business cost.
We need to be careful what we wish for.

I like one idea Tim proposed which is to locate conventions at glider
operations where fllight demonstrations are possible. If this could be an
inexpensive location in the central US, so much the better.

Bill Daniels


"Tim Mara" wrote in message
...
You're not alone in reporting a general lack of interest at this and for
that matter the past few conventions..
I made the suggestion to change these to every two years and heard the
same from several others at the last conventions I attended 3 and 4
years ago. Even at that time most of the vendors I spoke with were very
much in favor of this idea, the SSA was not since under the past
management (Management!!????) they saw the convention as the SSA's big
(only) event and fat cow....However the sweat equity, and most costs
don't fall on the SSA but on the vendors and members and though in past
history the local sponsoring clubs stood to make a decent profit from the
conventions, the SSA pretty much took this over and collected these funds
(who knows where these went since the SSA is essentially broke and
begging for more member and advertiser funds and costs...)
The fact remains though that very little changes in Soaring over the
course of one year. Few really new products, inventions or discoveries
need immediate attention....Talks and seminars tend to be last years
re-do's for the most part. Few of these are little more than a few
hocking their products and tend to be more late night infomercials than
comparisons or help sessions.
The costs for vendors is very high and most soaring vendors like
myself are small operators (I do 100% of everything here with no one to
leave behind to mind the store when I'm gone) The costs have to be made
up somewhere and that means higher costs for our customers somewhere down
the line which I would prefer not to do.
If conventions were done every other year vendors can do a better job
of their end, more new and exciting products will be displayed and
attendance will certainly improve making these better events.....
Now if we can only get the conventions moved to an airport or soaring
site away from the downtown convention centers we can really move ahead,
have flying exhibits and shows, make these inviting for outsiders who
then might become interested in saoring, we could have on site used
glider sales and even auctions (one of my really big ideas!) and start to
put soaring interest back into the hands of the members and businesses
that keep things rolling the other 362 days a year!
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"Richard" wrote in message
oups.com...
I thought the displays, the gliders and the talks were excellent, but
as a vendor I was dissapointed with the attendence numbers.

The rumor was floating around that after the 2008 convention, the
Convention would be every two years.

Anyone have thoughts on this idea? Will the SSA publish the
attendence figures?

Richard
www.craggyaero.com



On Feb 11, 9:00 am, wrote:
As I was unable to attend, does anyone have an update on the SSA
convention? How did it all go? How was attendance? How were the
seminars and of course, was there any "breaking news" on new
equipment, software, sailplanes, etc?
Thanks - Renny Rozzoni









--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

That might actually happen at Moriarty (Albuquerque) in '08. We need to get
a modern winch there.

Bill Daniels


"Mike Schumann" wrote in message
.. .
Winch launching should be a standard feature at every such convention!

Mike Schumann

"Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote in message
...
I agree with what Tim said.

However, it should be noted that not every member attends every
convention. I tend to go every three or four years and then only if it is
in the western US. If it were to be held bi-annually, this may mean that
I go only every five or six years. A risk is that with bi-annual
conventions, regions would step in and hold off-year affairs that vendors
might feel compelled to attend which would increase their business cost.
We need to be careful what we wish for.

I like one idea Tim proposed which is to locate conventions at glider
operations where fllight demonstrations are possible. If this could be
an inexpensive location in the central US, so much the better.

Bill Daniels


"Tim Mara" wrote in message
...
You're not alone in reporting a general lack of interest at this and for
that matter the past few conventions..
I made the suggestion to change these to every two years and heard
the same from several others at the last conventions I attended 3 and 4
years ago. Even at that time most of the vendors I spoke with were very
much in favor of this idea, the SSA was not since under the past
management (Management!!????) they saw the convention as the SSA's big
(only) event and fat cow....However the sweat equity, and most costs
don't fall on the SSA but on the vendors and members and though in past
history the local sponsoring clubs stood to make a decent profit from
the conventions, the SSA pretty much took this over and collected these
funds (who knows where these went since the SSA is essentially broke and
begging for more member and advertiser funds and costs...)
The fact remains though that very little changes in Soaring over the
course of one year. Few really new products, inventions or discoveries
need immediate attention....Talks and seminars tend to be last years
re-do's for the most part. Few of these are little more than a few
hocking their products and tend to be more late night infomercials than
comparisons or help sessions.
The costs for vendors is very high and most soaring vendors like
myself are small operators (I do 100% of everything here with no one to
leave behind to mind the store when I'm gone) The costs have to be made
up somewhere and that means higher costs for our customers somewhere
down the line which I would prefer not to do.
If conventions were done every other year vendors can do a better job
of their end, more new and exciting products will be displayed and
attendance will certainly improve making these better events.....
Now if we can only get the conventions moved to an airport or soaring
site away from the downtown convention centers we can really move ahead,
have flying exhibits and shows, make these inviting for outsiders who
then might become interested in saoring, we could have on site used
glider sales and even auctions (one of my really big ideas!) and start
to put soaring interest back into the hands of the members and
businesses that keep things rolling the other 362 days a year!
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

"Richard" wrote in message
oups.com...
I thought the displays, the gliders and the talks were excellent, but
as a vendor I was dissapointed with the attendence numbers.

The rumor was floating around that after the 2008 convention, the
Convention would be every two years.

Anyone have thoughts on this idea? Will the SSA publish the
attendence figures?

Richard
www.craggyaero.com



On Feb 11, 9:00 am, wrote:
As I was unable to attend, does anyone have an update on the SSA
convention? How did it all go? How was attendance? How were the
seminars and of course, was there any "breaking news" on new
equipment, software, sailplanes, etc?
Thanks - Renny Rozzoni









--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Excellent comments! We've had some discussions in recent months about
the idea of having a convention at an "actual" soaring site where
gliders can easily be displayed and actual demo rides could be
conducted. For example, we've always thought that Moriarty, NM could
be a great location. We have a large airport with plenty of room for
gliders, displays, room for tents, glider tie-downs, etc, etc. only 30
miles from Albuquerque. We also have the US Southwest Soaring Museum
with 2 buildings on the airport property that could be used for
seminars. In addition, we have the huge main SW Soaring museum
building in town (3 miles away) that could be used for various
functions and displays. There are also numerous hotels and restaurants
in Moriarty (again 3 miles from the airport) where folks could stay
and eat at very reasonable prices. Finally, as you know, we also have
fairly "decent" soaring at Moriarty..... Food for thought!
Thanks - Renny

On Feb 14, 9:35 am, "Tim Mara" wrote:
You're not alone in reporting a general lack of interest at this and for
that matter the past few conventions..
I made the suggestion to change these to every two years and heard the
same from several others at the last conventions I attended 3 and 4 years
ago. Even at that time most of the vendors I spoke with were very much in
favor of this idea, the SSA was not since under the past management
(Management!!????) they saw the convention as the SSA's big (only) event and
fat cow....However the sweat equity, and most costs don't fall on the SSA
but on the vendors and members and though in past history the local
sponsoring clubs stood to make a decent profit from the conventions, the SSA
pretty much took this over and collected these funds (who knows where these
went since the SSA is essentially broke and begging for more member and
advertiser funds and costs...)
The fact remains though that very little changes in Soaring over the
course of one year. Few really new products, inventions or discoveries need
immediate attention....Talks and seminars tend to be last years re-do's for
the most part. Few of these are little more than a few hocking their
products and tend to be more late night infomercials than comparisons or
help sessions.
The costs for vendors is very high and most soaring vendors like myself
are small operators (I do 100% of everything here with no one to leave
behind to mind the store when I'm gone) The costs have to be made up
somewhere and that means higher costs for our customers somewhere down the
line which I would prefer not to do.
If conventions were done every other year vendors can do a better job of
their end, more new and exciting products will be displayed and attendance
will certainly improve making these better events.....
Now if we can only get the conventions moved to an airport or soaring
site away from the downtown convention centers we can really move ahead,
have flying exhibits and shows, make these inviting for outsiders who then
might become interested in saoring, we could have on site used glider sales
and even auctions (one of my really big ideas!) and start to put soaring
interest back into the hands of the members and businesses that keep things
rolling the other 362 days a year!
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com

"Richard" wrote in message

oups.com...



I thought the displays, the gliders and the talks were excellent, but
as a vendor I was dissapointed with the attendence numbers.

The rumor was floating around that after the 2008 convention, the
Convention would be every two years.

Anyone have thoughts on this idea? Will the SSA publish the
attendence figures?

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Feb 11, 9:00 am, wrote:
As I was unable to attend, does anyone have an update on the SSA
convention? How did it all go? How was attendance? How were the
seminars and of course, was there any "breaking news" on new
equipment, software, sailplanes, etc?
Thanks - Renny Rozzoni- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

sounds like a great way to move things "forward" !
best regards
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com

wrote in message
oups.com...
Excellent comments! We've had some discussions in recent months about
the idea of having a convention at an "actual" soaring site where
gliders can easily be displayed and actual demo rides could be
conducted. For example, we've always thought that Moriarty, NM could
be a great location. We have a large airport with plenty of room for
gliders, displays, room for tents, glider tie-downs, etc, etc. only 30
miles from Albuquerque. We also have the US Southwest Soaring Museum
with 2 buildings on the airport property that could be used for
seminars. In addition, we have the huge main SW Soaring museum
building in town (3 miles away) that could be used for various
functions and displays. There are also numerous hotels and restaurants
in Moriarty (again 3 miles from the airport) where folks could stay
and eat at very reasonable prices. Finally, as you know, we also have
fairly "decent" soaring at Moriarty..... Food for thought!
Thanks - Renny

On Feb 14, 9:35 am, "Tim Mara" wrote:
You're not alone in reporting a general lack of interest at this and for
that matter the past few conventions..
I made the suggestion to change these to every two years and heard
the
same from several others at the last conventions I attended 3 and 4
years
ago. Even at that time most of the vendors I spoke with were very much in
favor of this idea, the SSA was not since under the past management
(Management!!????) they saw the convention as the SSA's big (only) event
and
fat cow....However the sweat equity, and most costs don't fall on the SSA
but on the vendors and members and though in past history the local
sponsoring clubs stood to make a decent profit from the conventions, the
SSA
pretty much took this over and collected these funds (who knows where
these
went since the SSA is essentially broke and begging for more member and
advertiser funds and costs...)
The fact remains though that very little changes in Soaring over the
course of one year. Few really new products, inventions or discoveries
need
immediate attention....Talks and seminars tend to be last years re-do's
for
the most part. Few of these are little more than a few hocking their
products and tend to be more late night infomercials than comparisons or
help sessions.
The costs for vendors is very high and most soaring vendors like
myself
are small operators (I do 100% of everything here with no one to leave
behind to mind the store when I'm gone) The costs have to be made up
somewhere and that means higher costs for our customers somewhere down
the
line which I would prefer not to do.
If conventions were done every other year vendors can do a better job
of
their end, more new and exciting products will be displayed and
attendance
will certainly improve making these better events.....
Now if we can only get the conventions moved to an airport or soaring
site away from the downtown convention centers we can really move ahead,
have flying exhibits and shows, make these inviting for outsiders who
then
might become interested in saoring, we could have on site used glider
sales
and even auctions (one of my really big ideas!) and start to put soaring
interest back into the hands of the members and businesses that keep
things
rolling the other 362 days a year!
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website atwww.wingsandwheels.com

"Richard" wrote in message

oups.com...



I thought the displays, the gliders and the talks were excellent, but
as a vendor I was dissapointed with the attendence numbers.

The rumor was floating around that after the 2008 convention, the
Convention would be every two years.

Anyone have thoughts on this idea? Will the SSA publish the
attendence figures?

Richard
www.craggyaero.com

On Feb 11, 9:00 am, wrote:
As I was unable to attend, does anyone have an update on the SSA
convention? How did it all go? How was attendance? How were the
seminars and of course, was there any "breaking news" on new
equipment, software, sailplanes, etc?
Thanks - Renny Rozzoni- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Tim Mara wrote:

Now if we can only get the conventions moved to an airport or soaring
site away from the downtown convention centers we can really move ahead,
have flying exhibits and shows, make these inviting for outsiders who then
might become interested in saoring, we could have on site used glider sales
and even auctions (one of my really big ideas!) and start to put soaring
interest back into the hands of the members and businesses that keep things
rolling the other 362 days a year!


How about trying for a compromise?

Since Soaring is usually fairly distant from city centers (for obvious
reasons) and city centers draw more people/spectators (for silly
reasons), why not try to find a balance, with a soaring site (even if
it's a "limited" soaring site) within a few minutes of a "city
center?"

Yeah, I'm in SoCal, and I like the Ontario (CA) center...why not
consider using the Long Beach Convention Center and make arrangements
with the Los Alamitos JFTB CAP club for winching and towing? They're
maybe 15 minutes (okay, call it 20 or 30) from the Long Beach
Convention Center (where AOPA and other organizations have held
wonderful conventions), Disneyland, Universal Studios, Hollywierd and
Beverly Hills are not too far away (for spouses and such). Heck, the
Society of Experimental Test Pilots is holding their annual symposium
at Disneyland now, since the Boneventure got ridiculous...and it
works, since it's a family setting!!! Think of it: a time for glider
pilots to repay the crews for the (otherwise) thankless service!!!

Tim is on to something: put the convention where the PILOTS aren't
stuck in workshop seats all weekend long, and get a chance to put
their butts in seats they're more accustomed to: Glider Seats!

Then again, that would make too much sense.

Thanks anyway, Tim...in my mind, YOU belong in the Soaring Hall of
Fame for the service you've provided to thousands of us glider
pilots...common sense being one of many commodities you give to the
sport.

-Pete
#309

On Feb 14, 11:04 pm, "309" wrote:
Since Soaring is usually fairly distant from city centers (for obvious
reasons) and city centers draw more people/spectators (for silly
reasons), why not try to find a balance, with a soaring site (even if
it's a "limited" soaring site) within a few minutes of a "city
center?"

Tucson Soaring Club put on a convention back in 197? and we had all
day ops at the airport while to convention was in progress. Drive was
about 20 minutes between convention center and Ryan Field. I recall
an acro show with Pilatus and the American Eaglet doing a demo. Rest
of the time was just folks going up for a ride, so the target audience
was not exactly what we're talking about, but I also saw a few
seasoned pilots at the airport.

-Tom

Tim,

I heartily agree. I hope that your suggestions will bear fruit,
especially the last one about reestablishing the connection between
soaring and the rest of aviation by using an airport site in future.


Jack

--------------

Tim Mara wrote:

...change these to every two years.

...very little changes in Soaring over the course of one year.

The costs for vendors is very high...and that means higher
costs for our customers.

...more new and exciting products will be displayed and attendance
will certainly improve making these better events.

Now if we can only get the conventions moved to an airport or
soaring site...we can...have flying exhibits and shows, make these
inviting for [others] who then might become interested in soaring,
we could have on-site used glider sales...and start to put soaring
interest bacl into the hands of the members and businesses that
keep things rolling the other 362 days a year!

Will it be in Albuquerque (Why don't we just call it
Whitechurch) or in Moriarty? I'd sure like to see
the H125-Integrale winch in operation; My club might
buy one!

At 20:24 16 February 2007, Bill Daniels wrote:
That might actually happen at Moriarty (Albuquerque)
in '08. We need to get
a modern winch there.

Bill Daniels


'Mike Schumann' wrote in message
. ..
Winch launching should be a standard feature at every
such convention!

Mike Schumann

'Bill Daniels' wrote in message
...
I agree with what Tim said.

However, it should be noted that not every member
attends every
convention. I tend to go every three or four years
and then only if it is
in the western US. If it were to be held bi-annually,
this may mean that
I go only every five or six years. A risk is that
with bi-annual
conventions, regions would step in and hold off-year
affairs that vendors
might feel compelled to attend which would increase
their business cost.
We need to be careful what we wish for.

I like one idea Tim proposed which is to locate conventions
at glider
operations where fllight demonstrations are possible.
If this could be
an inexpensive location in the central US, so much
the better.

Bill Daniels


'Tim Mara' wrote in message
...
You're not alone in reporting a general lack of interest
at this and for
that matter the past few conventions..
I made the suggestion to change these to every
two years and heard
the same from several others at the last conventions
I attended 3 and 4
years ago. Even at that time most of the vendors I
spoke with were very
much in favor of this idea, the SSA was not since
under the past
management (Management!!????) they saw the convention
as the SSA's big
(only) event and fat cow....However the sweat equity,
and most costs
don't fall on the SSA but on the vendors and members
and though in past
history the local sponsoring clubs stood to make a
decent profit from
the conventions, the SSA pretty much took this over
and collected these
funds (who knows where these went since the SSA is
essentially broke and
begging for more member and advertiser funds and costs...)
The fact remains though that very little changes
in Soaring over the
course of one year. Few really new products, inventions
or discoveries
need immediate attention....Talks and seminars tend
to be last years
re-do's for the most part. Few of these are little
more than a few
hocking their products and tend to be more late night
infomercials than
comparisons or help sessions.
The costs for vendors is very high and most soaring
vendors like
myself are small operators (I do 100% of everything
here with no one to
leave behind to mind the store when I'm gone) The
costs have to be made
up somewhere and that means higher costs for our customers
somewhere
down the line which I would prefer not to do.
If conventions were done every other year vendors
can do a better job
of their end, more new and exciting products will
be displayed and
attendance will certainly improve making these better
events.....
Now if we can only get the conventions moved to
an airport or soaring
site away from the downtown convention centers we
can really move ahead,
have flying exhibits and shows, make these inviting
for outsiders who
then might become interested in saoring, we could
have on site used
glider sales and even auctions (one of my really big
ideas!) and start
to put soaring interest back into the hands of the
members and
businesses that keep things rolling the other 362
days a year!
Tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com


'Richard' wrote in message
oups.com...
I thought the displays, the gliders and the talks were
excellent, but
as a vendor I was dissapointed with the attendence
numbers.

The rumor was floating around that after the 2008
convention, the
Convention would be every two years.

Anyone have thoughts on this idea? Will the SSA publish
the
attendence figures?

Richard
www.craggyaero.com



On Feb 11, 9:00 am, wrote:
As I was unable to attend, does anyone have an
update on the SSA
convention? How did it all go? How was attendance?
How were the
seminars and of course, was there any 'breaking
news' on new
equipment, software, sailplanes, etc?
Thanks - Renny Rozzoni









--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Would the FBO's at Moriarity agree to a winch demo?
I certainly would go
to Moriarity to see winch and auto pulley tow demonstrations
as well as the
soaring museum. It would be interesting to see a maximum
length winch
and auto tow demonstration with multiple launches.
I would also be
interested in attending a panel discussion about the
merits of auto pulley,
winch and aero tow for club and commercial operations.
If the weather is
right a 5 or 10 glider launch could be followed by
low high-speed passes
and pull ups by the people who advocate doing them.
;-)