Boarding with engines running

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
snip

Thus, I wanted to know if it's possible/safe/practical to sit with the
engines
running while someone gets into or out of the plane, much as one would do
with
a car when picking someone up. Maybe that is too farfetched for an
aviation
context. I suppose the passenger would have to be able to get to the
aircraft
on his own, and I don't know how tough that would be. And if the pilot
had to
help him board or disembark, I assume it would be way too risky to leave
the
aircraft running while he left his seat and got out of the plane.

If the passenger was a pilot or very familiar with airplane ops I might stay
in my seat with the engine running. But for the most part I would shut
down, assist the boarding process, and restart. For a quick pax pickup the
parking brakes would do the trick.

Danny Deger

On Feb 23, 8:04 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Is it safe/advisable to board a small single- or twin-engined aircraft while
the prop(s) and engine(s) are turning?

Engine/s, yes. Prop/s, no.
-----

- gpsman

"gpsman" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 23, 8:04 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Is it safe/advisable to board a small single- or twin-engined aircraft
while
the prop(s) and engine(s) are turning?

Engine/s, yes. Prop/s, no.
-----

- gpsman
Foot on the clutch :-)

On Feb 23, 6:42 pm, "gpsman" wrote:
On Feb 23, 8:04 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

Is it safe/advisable to board a small single- or twin-engined aircraft while
the prop(s) and engine(s) are turning?

Engine/s, yes. Prop/s, no.

Its very common when I hop off the turbo prop from SFO to SMF that the
right engine is running and the prop is turning. Since we board from
the left side the airline does not appear to care.

-Robert

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Is it safe/advisable to board a small single- or twin-engined aircraft
while
the prop(s) and engine(s) are turning? I'm just wondering if this is
feasible
if you just have someone getting on or getting off (with the pilot being
in
the aircraft the whole time).

On a related note, how long can you safely leave an aircraft (engines off)
with just the parking brake set, and when do you normally put chocks under
the
wheels?


My personal rule (for my Cherokee 180) is to not have passengers getting on
or off while the prop is spinning, in my view the risk isn't worth the extra
few seconds to stop/restart the engine. A spinning prop cannot be quickly
stopped. Further, the door on my Cherokee is difficult to hold open, while
maneuvering yourself to get in or out, even with the engine at idle.

Whenever this topic arises, I have a flashback to a local news story I saw
about 25(?) years ago in St. Louis. Passengers were exiting a small
twin-engine commercial prop plane, at night, down the fold-out stairs on the
left side of the airplane. In those days, to save time, the practice was to
stop only the left engine and then carefully guide the passengers away from
the plane, towards the building. One of the passengers was a young girl,
about 6-8 years old, wearing a hat. In the blink of an eye, her hat blew
off her head, went under the plane towards the running engine, and she ran
after it. She was killed.

I only use the parking brake long enough to tie down, or place the chocks,
then I release the brake.

St. Louis passed a local law, all engines must be shutdown,
after that accident.
"JK" wrote in message
nk.net...
snip|
| My personal rule (for my Cherokee 180) is to not have
passengers getting on
| or off while the prop is spinning, in my view the risk
isn't worth the extra
| few seconds to stop/restart the engine. A spinning prop
cannot be quickly
| stopped. Further, the door on my Cherokee is difficult to
hold open, while
| maneuvering yourself to get in or out, even with the
engine at idle.
|
| Whenever this topic arises, I have a flashback to a local
news story I saw
| about 25(?) years ago in St. Louis. Passengers were
exiting a small
| twin-engine commercial prop plane, at night, down the
fold-out stairs on the
| left side of the airplane. In those days, to save time,
the practice was to
| stop only the left engine and then carefully guide the
passengers away from
| the plane, towards the building. One of the passengers
was a young girl,
| about 6-8 years old, wearing a hat. In the blink of an
eye, her hat blew
| off her head, went under the plane towards the running
engine, and she ran
| after it. She was killed.
|
| I only use the parking brake long enough to tie down, or
place the chocks,
| then I release the brake.
|
|

Pilots have differing attitudes about safety. You can usually board a
low wing twin with engines running, but it's difficult to hold the
door, etc. The slipstream from even an idling prop is very strong.
Since props in motion tend to be invisible in peripheral vision, it's
easy for even informed airport personnel to accidentally walk into
them, as is reported with distressing frequency. A compromise is to
shut down the boarding side. A very careful pilot will always shut
down both for boarding and accept the time delay. I never leave my
single running to board or exchange passengers.

On a related note, how long can you safely leave an aircraft (engines off)
with just the parking brake set, and when do you normally put chocks under the
wheels?


Depends on wind and ground slope. Parking brakes on cars use a cable;
parking brakes on many small aircraft instead lock the brakes with
hydraulic pressure. Since this may expand as temperatures warm up,
most pilots don't leave parking brakes on more than temporarily,
usually only until the chocks are in place. Bigger airports always
have chocks available. I carry a small aluminum pair when flying
cross country.

Pilots have differing attitudes about safety. You can usually board a
low wing twin with engines running, but it's difficult to hold the
door, etc. The slipstream from even an idling prop is very strong.
Since props in motion tend to be invisible in peripheral vision, it's
easy for even informed airport personnel to accidentally walk into
them, as is reported with distressing frequency. A compromise is to
shut down the boarding side. A very careful pilot will always shut
down both for boarding and accept the time delay. I never leave my
single running to board or exchange passengers.

Even when the saftey problems are adiquately addressed, an idling engine on
the far side of a twin moves a lot of air and can be disruptive to the
operation. I don't know, but suspect that part of the decision might
involve the availability of a jumper cart--just in case.


On a related note, how long can you safely leave an aircraft (engines
off)
with just the parking brake set, and when do you normally put chocks
under the
wheels?


Depends on wind and ground slope. Parking brakes on cars use a cable;
parking brakes on many small aircraft instead lock the brakes with
hydraulic pressure. Since this may expand as temperatures warm up,
most pilots don't leave parking brakes on more than temporarily,
usually only until the chocks are in place. Bigger airports always
have chocks available. I carry a small aluminum pair when flying
cross country.

In my part of the country, parking brakes on light aircraft are used rarely,
if at all. I have always presumed this was to facilitate the towing of
aircraft by ramp service personnel.

Transport aircraft are another matter, on which I have no recent
knowledge--however the hierarchy of ownership and operation, as well as the
mechanical features of the brakes, are completely different--so parking
brake use could be nearly universal.

In any case, chocks are frequently used as well and some careful light plane
owners always tie down their aircraft--even for a few minutes. That
minimizes the hazard of the propeller blast from another aircraft, and is
excellent and inexpensive insurance which I plan to use when I resume
flying.

Peter

Peter Dohm writes:

I don't know, but suspect that part of the decision might
involve the availability of a jumper cart--just in case.

What is a jumper cart?

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

On Feb 23, 7:04 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Is it safe/advisable to board a small single- or twin-engined aircraft while
the prop(s) and engine(s) are turning? I'm just wondering if this is feasible
if you just have someone getting on or getting off (with the pilot being in
the aircraft the whole time).

On a related note, how long can you safely leave an aircraft (engines off)
with just the parking brake set, and when do you normally put chocks under the
wheels?

Only time I'd even consider boarding a passenger with the engine
running is if they were a pilot, instructor or mechanic.
--
Gene Seibel
Tales of Flight - http://pad39a.com/gene/tales.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.