What if...

On 4/25/2007 6:08:03 PM, "Blueskies" wrote:

What is the airspeed at 2000 fpm? How long can you fly in the red arc
: and not exceed V-dive without breaking the airplane? Theoretically, in
: smooth air, forever.

I have been able to get over 2000 fpm and without going into yellow or red in
my Bonanza V35 with gear down, RPMs back to around 2100, and MP back to 15
inches. The trick in the Bonanza is to slow it up first while level (RPM and
throttle back, drop gear), then begin the descent.

--
Peter

Peter R. wrote:

On 4/25/2007 6:08:03 PM, "Blueskies" wrote:


What is the airspeed at 2000 fpm? How long can you fly in the red arc
: and not exceed V-dive without breaking the airplane? Theoretically, in
: smooth air, forever.


I have been able to get over 2000 fpm and without going into yellow or red in
my Bonanza V35 with gear down, RPMs back to around 2100, and MP back to 15
inches. The trick in the Bonanza is to slow it up first while level (RPM and
throttle back, drop gear), then begin the descent.

Me too. I can peg the VSI and never get near the yellow line in my S35.

"Peter R." wrote in message ...
: On 4/25/2007 6:08:03 PM, "Blueskies" wrote:
:
: What is the airspeed at 2000 fpm? How long can you fly in the red arc
: : and not exceed V-dive without breaking the airplane? Theoretically, in
: : smooth air, forever.
:
: I have been able to get over 2000 fpm and without going into yellow or red in
: my Bonanza V35 with gear down, RPMs back to around 2100, and MP back to 15
: inches. The trick in the Bonanza is to slow it up first while level (RPM and
: throttle back, drop gear), then begin the descent.
:
: --
: Peter

That is a bad quote, not what I said above...

"john smith" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Matt Barrow" wrote:

Second - get the plane on the ground PRONTO, but where I want it, not
where
a draggy, gear down configuration might put me in a worse spot than I
already am.

One of the things the POH does say, is that the fast way to get down is
to extend the gear and full flaps.

Does it specify with the engine running? If you've got an engine fire, that
option _maybe_ out.

When you are taking advantage of the turbocharger to go higher, getting
down from over 10,000 to lower altitudes while you're on fire becomes
urgent.

Agreed.

With the gear down, however, you've narrowed your options. Over the midwest,
it's not likely a problem. Over rougher terrain it's a different story.

Maybe I'm just used to flying over rough terrain, so I'm averse to dropping
the gear until I'm "good n' ready".

I've never measured, but I wonder how much a side slip would help dump
altitude.

"Matt Barrow" wrote

With the gear down, however, you've narrowed your options. Over the
midwest,
it's not likely a problem. Over rougher terrain it's a different story.

Maybe I'm just used to flying over rough terrain, so I'm averse to
dropping the gear until I'm "good n' ready".

How about the option to put the gear back up, after the majority of the
altitude has been lost, and a landing site has been chosen that dictates the
gear up decision?
--
Jim in NC

On Apr 26, 2:37 pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Matt Barrow" wrote

With the gear down, however, you've narrowed your options. Over the
midwest,


How about the option to put the gear back up, after the majority of the
altitude has been lost, and a landing site has been chosen that dictates the
gear up decision?
--
Jim in NC

Jim, this is exactly how the airline guys are taught. The emergency
decent is done with the gear down in most situations. I would imagine
that the POH in most GA planes states something similar.

On Wed, 25 Apr 2007 12:15:08 -0400, john smith
wrote:

Once-upon-a-time I allegedly was asked to bid an insurance job on a
Turbo Arrow IV.

The airplane involved was on it's way to the East Coast to cross the
big pond.

Was cruising around 10,000 ft msl over a local rural county airport
with a 4200 ft runway (750 ft msl) when a fitting failed on top of the
turbo.

The fitting had apparently been added to tee an hourmeter oil pressure
switch into the oil pressure supply line to the turbo. If I remember
correctly, this supply line is also tee'd to the oil pressure gage in
the cabin.

When the fire erupted, the pilot secured the engine (fuel selector
prop mixture mags master), dropped the flaps and gear, and descended
in a slipping circular pattern to the field, and landed/rolled out on
the runway.

Being a single-engine constant-speed NON-feathering propeller, the
engine continued to windmill, the engine-driven oil pump emptied the
engine sump oil though the failed fitting, feeding the fire.

The first thing that I noted when examining the 'plane was that the
bracket that the extend retract cylinder mounts to on the bottom of
the firewall/belly angle was only attached by a small portion of the
firewall. the belly skin behind it was burnt/virtually gone. The
bracket was rotated down/forward approximately 60 degrees from it's
"normal" position.

Damage forward of the firewall was localized "below" and "aft" of the
broken fitting. I do not recall the firewall being perforated, but the
upholstery material/insulation blanket on the cabin side of the
firewalll showed signs of some serious heat.

The belly skin was rippled from the firewall to where the fuselage
bottom "breaks" upward to the empennage, between the center hat
sections that run longitudinally on the belly. The belly skin was
perforated immediately behind the firewall, but only (only??!!) had a
couple of small holes in it. The carpet/tunnel trim down the center of
the cabin had evidence of overheating, and several burnt spots.

As I recall, the bottom cowling was heat-damaged, but the only place
the fire exited the cowling was out the center nose gear opening.

IMHO, the pilot did exactly the right thing. I would "dirty-up" the
airplane with whatever I could hang out in the breeze so I could
descend at the highest rate.

Have never experimented with time to descend dirty vs. clean, but I do
know that it takes f-o-r-e-v-e-r to come back down clean after doing a
turbo critical altitude check.

Have also allegedly burned a couple of brush piles, and there ain't
nuthin that burns quite like an old tire...

Long story short, haven't been there done that, but I've seen it done.

TC

One of the aircraft I fly is a 1982 Piper Turbo Arrow IV.
Nowhere in the POH does it mention the emergency procedure for a
turbocharger failure resulting in an oil fed fire in the engine
compartment.

Do you drop the gear or leave it up?

My thinking is to drop it to keep the nose gear tire from being consumed
as additional fuel and to move more air through the engine compartment
while in a dive/steep descent to blow out a fire

Anyone with actual experience?

In article ,
john smith wrote:


One of the aircraft I fly is a 1982 Piper Turbo Arrow IV.
Nowhere in the POH does it mention the emergency procedure for a
turbocharger failure resulting in an oil fed fire in the engine
compartment.

Do you drop the gear or leave it up?

It seems like the first question you have to answer is "how
would you tell that was the failure?" If you can't answer that,
then the question is the same as "what do you do if you have an
engine fire?"

Having said that, I guess if you *knew* that an oil leak was
feeding the fire, you'd have to decide whether shutting down
the engine would stop it or not.

Mike Beede

Mike Beede wrote:
It seems like the first question you have to answer is "how
would you tell that was the failure?" If you can't answer that,
then the question is the same as "what do you do if you have an
engine fire?"

When a turbocharger fails , the manifold pressure drops to what it would
be for a normally aspirated engine.