Autopilot questions for small GA aircraft

In article . com,
chris wrote:

On May 9, 8:34 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On May 8, 1:13 pm, chris wrote:





Other comments welcome as well, of course.

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I think you'll find that it is very odd for a high performance single
to not have some sort of an autopilot. In my personal airplane I have
a single axis autopilot that can follow the loc, vor, etc. Most of the
time I use it on heading mode. For VFR it does a much better job of
holding a heading for 6 hours than I can (I tend to drift around a
bit). For IFR its very nice to not have to hold the plane upright in
mild turb while looking at charts. For any turb beyond mild my
autopilot tends to diverge so I have to turn it off. Incidently the
Mooney is one of the only aircraft certified for full time autopilot.
I later got an addition to my POH allowing me to turn the autopilot
off by pulling the breaker (which puts a big red light on in the
panel). The plane has no "off" switch for the autopilot because it was
certified as "full time". There is a red interrupt button on the yoke
but the second you release it, the autopilot is back in control. Some
pilots put rubber bands on the button to hold it down when they don't
want it.

-Robert

Wow, that's amazing!! So how do you do flight training in it? With
your hand on the button during a wingdrop etc, I suppose.. Sounds
like a bit of an oversight for them to not even include an off
button!!!! How do you get on taxiing??? In a normal autopilot you'd
have the controls trying to take your knees out constantly - Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, that's about what happens. I'm sure pilots had always pulled the
breaker. You do have to explain to pax why there is a big red warning
light on though.

-Robert- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's about the most bizarre thing I have ever heard!

Indeed. I find it almost impossible to believe.

rg

On May 8, 2:28 pm, Kev wrote:
On May 8, 1:39 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

I think you'll find that it is very odd for a high performance single
to not have some sort of an autopilot. In my personal airplane I have
a single axis autopilot that can follow the loc, vor, etc. Most of the
time I use it on heading mode.[...]

I'm not that familiar with Mooneys, but I thought all they had full-
time was a simple wing-leveler. I didn't realize it could also be
slaved to LOC, VOR, HDG. Is that normal, or an option or ?

Thanks!
Kev

The basic system was a vac driven system that was just a full time
wing leveler. Later models (such as mine) included an option for the
"PathFinder" autopilot, which is fully electric and has a selector of
leveler/heading/nav1/nav2

-Robert

On May 9, 11:09 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On May 8, 2:28 pm, Kev wrote:

On May 8, 1:39 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

I think you'll find that it is very odd for a high performance single
to not have some sort of an autopilot. In my personal airplane I have
a single axis autopilot that can follow the loc, vor, etc. Most of the
time I use it on heading mode.[...]

I'm not that familiar with Mooneys, but I thought all they had full-
time was a simple wing-leveler. I didn't realize it could also be
slaved to LOC, VOR, HDG. Is that normal, or an option or ?

Thanks!
Kev

The basic system was a vac driven system that was just a full time
wing leveler. Later models (such as mine) included an option for the
"PathFinder" autopilot, which is fully electric and has a selector of
leveler/heading/nav1/nav2

-Robert

So is the wing leveler fighting with you when you want to go round a
corner??

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ps.com...
On May 8, 1:13 pm, chris wrote:
Other comments welcome as well, of course.







--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I think you'll find that it is very odd for a high performance single
to not have some sort of an autopilot. In my personal airplane I have
a single axis autopilot that can follow the loc, vor, etc. Most of the
time I use it on heading mode. For VFR it does a much better job of
holding a heading for 6 hours than I can (I tend to drift around a
bit). For IFR its very nice to not have to hold the plane upright in
mild turb while looking at charts. For any turb beyond mild my
autopilot tends to diverge so I have to turn it off. Incidently the
Mooney is one of the only aircraft certified for full time autopilot.
I later got an addition to my POH allowing me to turn the autopilot
off by pulling the breaker (which puts a big red light on in the
panel). The plane has no "off" switch for the autopilot because it was
certified as "full time". There is a red interrupt button on the yoke
but the second you release it, the autopilot is back in control. Some
pilots put rubber bands on the button to hold it down when they don't
want it.

-Robert

Wow, that's amazing!! So how do you do flight training in it? With
your hand on the button during a wingdrop etc, I suppose.. Sounds
like a bit of an oversight for them to not even include an off
button!!!! How do you get on taxiing??? In a normal autopilot you'd
have the controls trying to take your knees out constantly - Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Yep, that's about what happens. I'm sure pilots had always pulled the
breaker. You do have to explain to pax why there is a big red warning
light on though.

-Robert

Nah! Just tell 'em to pray loudly, so that God can hear 'em over the
engine.

Peter
(Expecting to fly with high-sulfur fuel)

On May 8, 1:52 pm, chris wrote:
On May 8, 1:22 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:

Some questions on autopilots for pilots of small GA aircraft:

1. Do you have an autopilot in your aircraft? If so, how many axes/modes?

Some of the aircraft I fly do have them. All are single axis. You can
select HDG to follow the bug or NAV to follow a VOR, and some other
modes I haven't tried. One apparently will follow the GPS but I
couldn't figure the GPS out last time I flew that plane. One of the
other club planes, a Twin Comanche has alt hold as well as hdg hold. I
think a couple of our planes have autopilot disconnect switches handy
to your left hand as well.

The Clubs 172R will hold heading and altitude, and runs on NAV, HDG
or GPS modes. I liken its GPS to using the VI text editor in Linux -
only those who know how to use it can use it. The rest of us just use
the radio function and thats it.

2. Which modes do you find yourself using most often, and in what conditions?

HDG mode is all I have ever used, when I have trimmed it up and am on
track I sometimes set the autopilot up and sit back and relax.



3. Do you use your autopilot differently between VFR and IFR flight? If so,
what do you do differently?

N/A - don't fly IFR



4. How much do you trust your autopilot? Have you experienced failures? Were
they inconveniences or did they impact safety?

Seems to work OK, just have to remember that if you decide to change
direction the control column will strongly resist you trying to turn
it. Apparently a sharp yank will disconnect autopilot but have not
tried that. Gives you a fright when you go to turn left and it won't
turn!!

It was demonstrated to me in the clubs PA28 when I did my type rating
and you have to give it a fairly strong wrench to override it. And
yes, its quite scary. The 172 has an override switch on the controls.

5. Do you find that autopilots add safety or merely add convenience?

Using autopilot I am more likely to fly straight along the track
rather than wobbling around like I normally do

Convenience. I don't see it being safer than hand flying as you don't
really have ready control over the aircraft. One of our local
airlines entire Beech 1900D fleet was ordered without autopilot. When
the CEO was asked why he said, "we're paying for 2 pilots why pay for
a 3rd?"

6. Excluding situations in which autopilot is required (autolands, RVSM,
etc.), are there situations in which you prefer not to fly without an
autopilot?

I only use it for decent cross country flights, everything else,
including takeoff and landing I switch it off.

On May 8, 4:19 pm, chris wrote:
On May 9, 11:09 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:





On May 8, 2:28 pm, Kev wrote:

On May 8, 1:39 pm, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:

I think you'll find that it is very odd for a high performance single
to not have some sort of an autopilot. In my personal airplane I have
a single axis autopilot that can follow the loc, vor, etc. Most of the
time I use it on heading mode.[...]

I'm not that familiar with Mooneys, but I thought all they had full-
time was a simple wing-leveler. I didn't realize it could also be
slaved to LOC, VOR, HDG. Is that normal, or an option or ?

Thanks!
Kev

The basic system was a vac driven system that was just a full time
wing leveler. Later models (such as mine) included an option for the
"PathFinder" autopilot, which is fully electric and has a selector of
leveler/heading/nav1/nav2

-Robert

So is the wing leveler fighting with you when you want to go round a
corner??- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Technically the way you would initiate a turn is to tell the wing
leveler to make a standard rate turn left or right. It has a 3
position switch on the TC, straight, left, right. So they expected you
would either fly around the pattern using the turn director or hold
the override button down the entire time. Of course the autopilot is
also easily overpowerable.

-Robert

Some of the aircraft I fly do have them. All are single axis. You can
select HDG to follow the bug or NAV to follow a VOR, and some other
modes I haven't tried. One apparently will follow the GPS but I
couldn't figure the GPS out last time I flew that plane. One of the
other club planes, a Twin Comanche has alt hold as well as hdg hold. I
think a couple of our planes have autopilot disconnect switches handy
to your left hand as well.

The Clubs 172R will hold heading and altitude, and runs on NAV, HDG
or GPS modes. I liken its GPS to using the VI text editor in Linux -
only those who know how to use it can use it. The rest of us just use
the radio function and thats it.

Someone is going to have to show me how to use that some time!!

Paul Tomblin writes:

Usually when I trim the plane
correctly I don't need the altitude hold, so I hardly use it.

What about using the autopilot to trim, and then turning it off? I do this in
simulation, but only because the sim doesn't allow extremely precise trim
adjustments (as far as I know).

But only an idiot would try an autopilot for the first time in IMC.

I dunno. A pilot who isn't IR might try to turn on the autopilot upon finding
himself in IMC in order to keep the aircraft straight and narrow while he
gathers his wits about him, even though he might not have ever had occasion to
use it previously. It would be a reasonably logical thing to try.

Both. Last week when I was doing my IPC I started to get airsick. I
immediately turned on the autopilot so I could take a break.

What is IPC?

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Robert M. Gary writes:

On the 182 (with G1000 KAP 140) we can doing full coupled approaches.
The autopilot takes over when the wheels leave the ground and I don't
kick it off until 200 feet. Full GPSS, etc.

Doesn't that take some of the alleged fun out of flying a small airplane?

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Robert M. Gary writes:

I think you'll find that it is very odd for a high performance single
to not have some sort of an autopilot.

That's reassuring. I wouldn't want to fly anything without an autopilot--a
good one.

How much do autopilots for small aircraft cost? Do they have to be provided
for at the factory, or can they be retrofitted to an aircraft?

The plane has no "off" switch for the autopilot because it was
certified as "full time". There is a red interrupt button on the yoke
but the second you release it, the autopilot is back in control. Some
pilots put rubber bands on the button to hold it down when they don't
want it.

I don't like that idea at all. Even airliners have positive disconnects for
the autopilot.

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