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Private wrote:
"Dan" wrote in message ps.com... I've got a question for the group. Suppose you find yourself in the following situation: You are flying a C182, landing on runway 22. The ATIS lists the winds as 240 at 10. The windsock is not visible. You approach at a normal airspeed, full flaps, coming over the numbers at 65 kts. The mains touchdown, followed by the nosegear. Slight right aileron is being maintained into the wind. Everything is aligned properly and on the centerline at touchdown. After touchdown the plane starts to drift to the right side of the runway. You try to correct by pointing the nose back to the centerline with left rudder. The nose seems to be pointed left, but the plane is still drifting right. It feels like any more left rudder could result in bad skidding and/or a ground loop. What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation? Left aileron would be in the _opposite_ direction of the indicated crosswind. Increasing back pressure would make the nosewheel even less effective. --Dan "Kyle Boatright" wrote in message . .. This simply illustrates why you can't trust ATIS to give you anything more than a general sense of the conditions you might encounter. Winds change. ATIS stations sometimes see different wind conditions than the touchdown point, due to obstacles and wind direction. With an ATIS reading of a 20 degree off-centerline, and 10 knots of wind, I would fly a normal approach and make the corrections necessary to keep the airplane pointed straight down the runway with no drift during the flare and landing. I would not pre-suppose anything. On the other hand, if ATIS was indicating a 90 degree crosswind at 10 knots, and the smoke from chimneys, or waves on a nearby lake, or the windsock confirmed that information, I would *assume* that I had a noticeable crosswind to deal with, and would be mentally prepared for it... BUT, I'd still wait until final approach to crank in gross corrections to correct drift, and would apply whatever corrections were necessary in the flare to keep the airplane aligned and kill any drift. Bottom line.. ATIS gives you an indication of what the winds were at one point on the airfield at a given time. The conditions at your touchdown spot may be different. KB I agree with the other good responses in this thread and would only add that the ATIS is a periodic and not real time report that could IMHE be 1 or more hours old. I always want to confirm the ATIS by seeing the windsock and monitoring crab and drift on downwind, base and especially on final. A wind sock is nice, but entirely optional. If you can't peg the wind pretty well while flying final, then you need more instruction and more practice. Matt |
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This brings out the most important point to be made in this entire thread.
"Let the AIRPLANE tell you what the ACTUAL winds are and fly the approach and landing doing whatever the AIRPLANE tells you needs to be done for the wind. This is cardinal rule 1 for ALL landings and supercedes any and all forecast and radio transmitted expectation for wind condition and direction. Dudley Henriques "Kyle Boatright" wrote in message . .. This simply illustrates why you can't trust ATIS to give you anything more than a general sense of the conditions you might encounter. Winds change. ATIS stations sometimes see different wind conditions than the touchdown point, due to obstacles and wind direction. With an ATIS reading of a 20 degree off-centerline, and 10 knots of wind, I would fly a normal approach and make the corrections necessary to keep the airplane pointed straight down the runway with no drift during the flare and landing. I would not pre-suppose anything. On the other hand, if ATIS was indicating a 90 degree crosswind at 10 knots, and the smoke from chimneys, or waves on a nearby lake, or the windsock confirmed that information, I would *assume* that I had a noticeable crosswind to deal with, and would be mentally prepared for it... BUT, I'd still wait until final approach to crank in gross corrections to correct drift, and would apply whatever corrections were necessary in the flare to keep the airplane aligned and kill any drift. Bottom line.. ATIS gives you an indication of what the winds were at one point on the airfield at a given time. The conditions at your touchdown spot may be different. KB "Dan" wrote in message ps.com... I've got a question for the group. Suppose you find yourself in the following situation: You are flying a C182, landing on runway 22. The ATIS lists the winds as 240 at 10. The windsock is not visible. You approach at a normal airspeed, full flaps, coming over the numbers at 65 kts. The mains touchdown, followed by the nosegear. Slight right aileron is being maintained into the wind. Everything is aligned properly and on the centerline at touchdown. After touchdown the plane starts to drift to the right side of the runway. You try to correct by pointing the nose back to the centerline with left rudder. The nose seems to be pointed left, but the plane is still drifting right. It feels like any more left rudder could result in bad skidding and/or a ground loop. What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation? Left aileron would be in the _opposite_ direction of the indicated crosswind. Increasing back pressure would make the nosewheel even less effective. --Dan |
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Dudley Henriques wrote:
This brings out the most important point to be made in this entire thread. "Let the AIRPLANE tell you what the ACTUAL winds are and fly the approach and landing doing whatever the AIRPLANE tells you needs to be done for the wind. This is cardinal rule 1 for ALL landings and supercedes any and all forecast and radio transmitted expectation for wind condition and direction. Dudley Henriques Say it again, Dudley! You fly the conditions as they exist, not what you think they are or wish they were. Matt |
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![]() "Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... Dudley Henriques wrote: This brings out the most important point to be made in this entire thread. "Let the AIRPLANE tell you what the ACTUAL winds are and fly the approach and landing doing whatever the AIRPLANE tells you needs to be done for the wind. This is cardinal rule 1 for ALL landings and supercedes any and all forecast and radio transmitted expectation for wind condition and direction. Dudley Henriques Say it again, Dudley! You fly the conditions as they exist, not what you think they are or wish they were. Matt "You fly the conditions as they exist, not what you think they are or wish they were". How's that!! :-)) DH |
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Dudley Henriques wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... Dudley Henriques wrote: This brings out the most important point to be made in this entire thread. "Let the AIRPLANE tell you what the ACTUAL winds are and fly the approach and landing doing whatever the AIRPLANE tells you needs to be done for the wind. This is cardinal rule 1 for ALL landings and supercedes any and all forecast and radio transmitted expectation for wind condition and direction. Dudley Henriques Say it again, Dudley! You fly the conditions as they exist, not what you think they are or wish they were. Matt "You fly the conditions as they exist, not what you think they are or wish they were". How's that!! :-)) DH That's a keeper! :-) Matt |
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#7
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On May 20, 6:09 pm, Dave Doe wrote:
In article om, says... I've got a question for the group. Suppose you find yourself in the following situation: You are flying a C182, landing on runway 22. The ATIS lists the winds as 240 at 10. The windsock is not visible. You approach at a normal airspeed, full flaps, coming over the numbers at 65 kts. The mains touchdown, followed by the nosegear. Slight right aileron is being maintained into the wind. Everything is aligned properly and on the centerline at touchdown. After touchdown the plane starts to drift to the right side of the runway. You try to correct by pointing the nose back to the centerline with left rudder. The nose seems to be pointed left, but the plane is still drifting right. It feels like any more left rudder could result in bad skidding and/or a ground loop. What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation? Left aileron would be in the _opposite_ direction of the indicated crosswind. Regardless, this is the right move (IMO) - as it's possibly caused by less crosswind down at RWY level - you use aileron to control the drift, rudder to keep it pointing in the right direction. -- Duncan- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks. That's exactly what I was getting at. Obviously, I know this is true when still in the air, but I was not sure if this rule changed when rolling down the runway... --Dan |
#8
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Dan wrote:
On May 20, 6:09 pm, Dave Doe wrote: In article om, says... I've got a question for the group. Suppose you find yourself in the following situation: You are flying a C182, landing on runway 22. The ATIS lists the winds as 240 at 10. The windsock is not visible. You approach at a normal airspeed, full flaps, coming over the numbers at 65 kts. The mains touchdown, followed by the nosegear. Slight right aileron is being maintained into the wind. Everything is aligned properly and on the centerline at touchdown. After touchdown the plane starts to drift to the right side of the runway. You try to correct by pointing the nose back to the centerline with left rudder. The nose seems to be pointed left, but the plane is still drifting right. It feels like any more left rudder could result in bad skidding and/or a ground loop. What are the proper control inputs to correct the situation? Left aileron would be in the _opposite_ direction of the indicated crosswind. Regardless, this is the right move (IMO) - as it's possibly caused by less crosswind down at RWY level - you use aileron to control the drift, rudder to keep it pointing in the right direction. -- Duncan- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Thanks. That's exactly what I was getting at. Obviously, I know this is true when still in the air, but I was not sure if this rule changed when rolling down the runway... It changes a lot. Drift is controlled in the air by slipping which requires bank. Since you can't bank while on the ground, the ailerons aren't going to do much for drift. They help keep weight on the upwind wheels to provide better traction and they help keep the wind from flipping you over, they they don't do squat for drift. That is a function of rudder and tire traction. Matt |
#9
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