Diesel for Diamond DA40?

On 2007-05-23, Newps wrote:

and you make your own biodiesel at ~$1/gal., would you say the
break even point is acceptable?

I don't know. First off putting $80K into a $50K airplane won't
happen for that reason alone.

I used to fly a c172 trainer that was upgraded from the stock engine
to 180HP. Granted it had to be cheaper than a change in engines that
burn different fuels, but how much different?

Here's the breakdown on the diesel upgrade:

parts: $29k
labor: $46-51k

More of the cost is labor. What's the cost of going from say 160HP to
180HP (both burning the same type of fuel)?

I don't expect to see many folks making a lateral change to diesel for
the sake of economy or range, but if someone wants an upgrade in power
anyway, it may be viable to spend a little more and make it a diesel.
The $80k is not exactly a toss-away investment either, because they
can expect to sell the plane for more as well.

Second the guy who has $80K to put into a 182 isn't the kind of guy
who homebrews his own biodiesel.

Perhaps that's the case with doctors and lawyers who are private
pilots. However, imagine a full-time flight school owner/CFI, who
might often be stuck at the airport 1-2 hours between student
sessions. It's not worth it to go home during this idle time, so they
might as well use the time to make more biodiesel. They would still
charge the same wet fee as they would for gasoline trainers, but the
diesel savings would directly increase profits. At $3-4/gal in
savings, the school would get $30-40/hr more profit on each flight.
And that's assuming fuel costs don't go up, and doesn't account for
the saving inherent in a diesel reguardless of type of diesel. So how
long does it take a busy school to put ~2200 hours on a plane? Unless
I made some gross error, I'd say in ~2-3 years the engine upgrade
would pay for itself.

The school could even gain some business by offering students
discounts for doing the grunt work of making the fuel, thus gain some
business for those who can't quite budget enough to pay regular
prices.

--
PM instructions: do a C4esar Ciph3r on my address; retain punctuation.

and IIRC what I read.. you can't field overhaul the diesel, it goes back to
the factory and the limit is about 1100hrs.

BT

"Greg Copeland" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 21, 8:54 pm, Paul kgyy wrote:
Anybody know whether the Diamond DA40 is available with diesel power
in the U.S.? I checked the website and the only engine is the ancient
Lycoming IO360.

Hmm. Not sure why you put it that way. The IO360 is well know for
being rock solid. Diesel aircraft engines typically cost you useful
load because of their weight and the fuel is heavier to boot. A
double whammy on useful load isn't exactly exciting. IIRC, the
diesels that Diamond have certified don't have a 2000hr TBO either.
Didn't they just get it increased from 1200hrs to 1500hr or something
like that? On top of all that, the energy density for 100LL is some
20% higher (IIRC; or was it 40%) which means fuel consumption is 20%
higher for the same HP rating.

Overall, aside from diesel fuel prices, I don't see a big advantage
especially once you multiply the diesel fuel price by %120 to compare
what it would cost you to travel the same distance via 100LL. Once
you add in the engine reserve for a 1500hr (IIRC) engine versus a
2000hr engine and the extra fuel required, one has to wonder if the
diesel price per gallon is worth it in the big picture.

Are you sure you still want diesel power?


Greg

Paul,

Anybody know whether the Diamond DA40 is available with diesel power
in the U.S.?


As far I know, it's not. Best to call Diamond, though. They might have
changed their policy with the introduction of the DA-42.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Paul kgyy schrieb:
Anybody know whether the Diamond DA40 is available with diesel power
in the U.S.?

Not yet. Until now, Thielert has sold their engines only in Europe. They
want to have them near the factory until enough engines have reached
their life lmit to really judge their reliability. Although well
engineered, it's a new engine and they don't want to take the risk of
getting a bad reputantion which would stick. Of course they will
eventually sell to the USA, as soon as they feel comfortable and have
installed a dealer base.

Stefan,

Until now, Thielert has sold their engines only in Europe.


Actually, they are selling the DA-42 with Thielert engines in the US
and have been for some months now.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

("Thomas Borchert" wrote)
Until now, Thielert has sold their engines only in Europe.

Actually, they are selling the DA-42 with Thielert engines in the US and
have been for some months now.


In Minnesota...

At Anoka County-Blaine Airport (ANE) there is a DA-42, with Thielert
engines. It is owned by a regular poster to rec.aviation, he is also a
member of our local EAA Chapter. He's wants to give Young Eagle rides in his
DA-42. He used to give Young Eagle rides in his Cessna 310. g

I hope I get these numbers right.

He said @ 85% power (turbo) he's seeing total fuel burn:

12 gallons/hour ......175kts?
8 gallons /hour .......140kts?

Crap, now I'm guessing. PINGING Cary M !!!


Montblack

I checked with Diamond directly, and the diesel version is available
only in Europe.

They (and apparently also Cirrus) are "evaluating their options".