What Used Plane For First Time Purchase?

On Jun 13, 5:48 pm, "CareBear" wrote:
All:

I am still pondering whether to buy an airplane or continue renting.
Renting presents a few problems: availability being the main one. I
mentioned in a previous post that there was an opportunity to buy a 1980
Beech Sundowner but since then the owner decided not to sell (thanks B A R R
Y for the write-up). Here are my thoughts on what I "think" I want to
purchase should it be decided to go that route.

I would prefer a plane that had from 180 to 200hp (not ready for complex or
retract yet). High wing or low wing doesn't really matter (I trained in a
Cessna 152). I will be getting checked out in the Cessna 172 real soon. I
plan on using the plane to get IFR certified and keep it 2-4 years.

Mission....I plan on making several local (less than 50nm) and at least 5 xc
flights (from 100 to 500nm) per year. I will have the wife and a couple of
grandchildren (small in size). Definitely need at least 4 seats. The more
roomier the better.

I don't know what brand or model is the safest, best to buy, easiest to
handle, less troublesome, etc. One guy told me to get a Cessna 172 only for
the 1976 to 1979 models. He didn't offer an explanation as to why only
these models. Another guy said get a Piper Warrior.

Frankly, I don't know what to get. As a new pilot (80-100hrs) I am not all
familiar with the world of airplanes, so therefore I solicit your advice and
opinions.

Almost forgot...would be willing to spend up to $70,000 on the right plane.

Thanks,

--
CareBear

I've always thought it would be cool to pick up an Archer with a run-
out engine for a reasonable price, then put the STC'd Thielert diesel
engine in it. It really boosts the performance and it cuts the fuel
burn down quite a bit...

Dean

About all the suggestions are good. I like a plane with long legs to
give more options on fuel stops. You'd think it's easy to get fuel, but
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've stopped at an airport and
found fuel unavailable due to any number of reasons. Attendant went
home early, pump is broken, we ran out, just got a delivery and it has
to settle. I've heard them all.

The 172 had a mediocre engine from 1977-1980 known as the H model
engine. The problems it had with its cam are reasonably well understood
and preventable, as I understand it. These years make for good
candidates for the 180 hp conversion. Many already have 50 gallon fuel
capacity, which is desirable for the 180 hp engine.

I wouldn't get a pre-1968 172, when the engine was a Continental O-300.
I think making TBO without cylinder work isn't as common in that engine.

The PowerFlow Systems exhaust mod seems to bolster climb performance and
top speed a bit for the small Lycomings. You might consider that, if
you have some dollars left over.

You might also mention where you fly to and from. Weather and terrain
influence aircraft choice. I would like two doors or a sliding canopy,
if there are four people to load and unload at every stop.

Finally, if I may broaden the topic and give a minor challenge, I'd
question whether your premise is a good one. I know I wasn't up to
250-500 mile xc trips when I had so few hours as you, especially with
the distractions and demands of family and children in the cockpit.
Maybe you already have a plan for getting more experience before taking
this valuable cargo with you. Or maybe you live in a part of the
country where the weather and terrain are exceptionally benign. Or
maybe you're just a lot better than I was. If I may suggest, go to the
NTSB website and read as many relevant accident reports as you can to
broaden your perspective.

This may be a bit conservative, but I might suggest having N hours in
the logbook before venturing N miles from home with passengers. That
is, log 300 hours before taking your family 300 nmi away. One could
argue for a 2:3 ratio (200 hours for 300 nmi), but I think you get my
intent. Your terrain, weather, schedule, airspace, currency and skills
should influence this, but these are hard to quantify, so a simple rule
has some benefits.

Good luck!

-John


CareBear wrote:
All:

I am still pondering whether to buy an airplane or continue renting.
Renting presents a few problems: availability being the main one. I
mentioned in a previous post that there was an opportunity to buy a 1980
Beech Sundowner but since then the owner decided not to sell (thanks B A R R
Y for the write-up). Here are my thoughts on what I "think" I want to
purchase should it be decided to go that route.

I would prefer a plane that had from 180 to 200hp (not ready for complex or
retract yet). High wing or low wing doesn't really matter (I trained in a
Cessna 152). I will be getting checked out in the Cessna 172 real soon. I
plan on using the plane to get IFR certified and keep it 2-4 years.

Mission....I plan on making several local (less than 50nm) and at least 5 xc
flights (from 100 to 500nm) per year. I will have the wife and a couple of
grandchildren (small in size). Definitely need at least 4 seats. The more
roomier the better.

I don't know what brand or model is the safest, best to buy, easiest to
handle, less troublesome, etc. One guy told me to get a Cessna 172 only for
the 1976 to 1979 models. He didn't offer an explanation as to why only
these models. Another guy said get a Piper Warrior.

Frankly, I don't know what to get. As a new pilot (80-100hrs) I am not all
familiar with the world of airplanes, so therefore I solicit your advice and
opinions.

Almost forgot...would be willing to spend up to $70,000 on the right plane.

Thanks,

On Jun 22, 2:35 pm, John wrote:


This may be a bit conservative, but I might suggest having N hours in
the logbook before venturing N miles from home with passengers. That
is, log 300 hours before taking your family 300 nmi away. One could
argue for a 2:3 ratio (200 hours for 300 nmi), but I think you get my
intent. Your terrain, weather, schedule, airspace, currency and skills
should influence this, but these are hard to quantify, so a simple rule
has some benefits.

Good luck!

-John


why?

Robert

Thanks for all the replies. It proved to be interesting reading. Still
haven't decided on continuing to rent or buy. But if I choose to buy, I
"believe" it will be either a Cessna 172 or a Piper Cherokee 180. But the
jury is still out on others. Decisions, decisions, decisions


--
CareBear

On Jun 23, 12:29 pm, "CareBear" wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. It proved to be interesting reading. Still
haven't decided on continuing to rent or buy. But if I choose to buy, I
"believe" it will be either a Cessna 172 or a Piper Cherokee 180. But the
jury is still out on others. Decisions, decisions, decisions

--
CareBear

I think it may be worth looking at another option. If there is a
"flying club" in your area, take a look at what they have to offer. I
am not talking about the flying clubs associated with an FBO. I am
talking about one where you become a part owner in the airplane(s),
but the costs are spread across about 15 people per plane. For
example, I belonged to Flywell Flying Club at KANE for many years
where we owned 3 planes, a C172, C182RG, and a PA-181. This will allow
you to gain experience in another type of plane(s) at much less than
the cost of renting. After more experience in different planes, you
may be able to better determine if you want to buy outright and what
plane to buy (with its high expense) or continue with a flying club.

Cary
CP-ASMEL/IA
N336TS (DA42)

On Mon, 25 Jun 2007 15:35:15 -0700, Cary wrote:

On Jun 23, 12:29 pm, "CareBear" wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. It proved to be interesting reading. Still
haven't decided on continuing to rent or buy. But if I choose to buy, I
"believe" it will be either a Cessna 172 or a Piper Cherokee 180. But the
jury is still out on others. Decisions, decisions, decisions

--
CareBear

My "first time" purchase was a Debonair/F33 Bonanza although I had
been partners in a Cherokee 180 for some years prior to that.

I think it may be worth looking at another option. If there is a
"flying club" in your area, take a look at what they have to offer. I
am not talking about the flying clubs associated with an FBO. I am
talking about one where you become a part owner in the airplane(s),
but the costs are spread across about 15 people per plane. For

We have several flying clubs on our field and they range in size from
3 to 15 members. As a personal opinion I see 15 members as far too
many for one aircraft, but about right for two.

example, I belonged to Flywell Flying Club at KANE for many years
where we owned 3 planes, a C172, C182RG, and a PA-181. This will allow
you to gain experience in another type of plane(s) at much less than
the cost of renting. After more experience in different planes, you

We found the cost per person with 3 members in the 180 to be less than
one third the cost of renting when we were all flying over 100 hours a
year, but when we dropped to about 75 we needed 5 members to keep the
price per hour about the same. Taking on the two new members did
create a jump in the insurance rates but not bad.

may be able to better determine if you want to buy outright and what
plane to buy (with its high expense) or continue with a flying club.

I found I could fly the Debonair, or older F-33 130 hours per year
cheaper than renting a 172 including ALL costs, not just the
variables. That included a progressive maintenance program, insurance,
hangar rent, fuel, oil, and annuals, but did not take into account
what I'd get back after selling the Deb. I had no paymens with
interest. When compairing to renting you have to use all costs, not
just the variable for a realistic comparrison.




Cary
CP-ASMEL/IA
N336TS (DA42)

Well, after much consideration, talking with CFIs and pilots, as well as
this NG, I've decided to get a C-182. I appreciate all the posts. There
was some good advice and gave me things to think about. Now the search is
on.

--
CareBear