ID Theft -- Courtesy of the FAA

Dennis Johnson wrote:
I'm also confused by this. If the thief paid by credit card at a self-serve
pump, the FBO will get paid by the credit card company, no matter what.

Oh, bull****. You've never been involved in a business that takes
credit cards? While the cardholder is protected, there ain't no
such protection by the merchant. If the card was fraudulant, the
charges will be reversed and you'll pay a service fee too!

Dennis Johnson wrote:

I'm also confused by this. If the thief paid by credit card at a self-serve
pump, the FBO will get paid by the credit card company, no matter what.

Absolutely false. If you are a merchant and you accept a credit card that
proves to be fraudulent, sorry for you. The issuing bank will issue a charge
back to your bank and you will have the charges reversed. Plus you will pay a
significant charge back fee. If the situation happens automatically the fees
can go up and you can lose your merchant account.

That is why it behooves merchant to diligently check those signatures and hang
on to receipts with the signatures on them. If they accept credit cards without
signatures (e.g. at a self-fueling pump) the risks are increased and the
benefits of increased legitimate sales need to offset those risks.

Taylor Hughes wrote:

That is why it behooves merchant to diligently check those signatures
and hang on to receipts with the signatures on them. If they accept
credit cards without signatures (e.g. at a self-fueling pump) the
risks are increased and the benefits of increased legitimate sales
need to offset those risks.

Which almost none of them do. I know this because written next to my
signature on all of my cards are the words, "Check ID" in bold print. If one
were to look at the signature they could in no way miss it.

In the 15 - 20 years I have been putting this on credit and debit cards only
once has it ever been done.

"Taylor Hughes" wrote in message
...
Dennis Johnson wrote:

I'm also confused by this. If the thief paid by credit card at a
self-serve
pump, the FBO will get paid by the credit card company, no matter what.

Absolutely false. If you are a merchant and you accept a credit card that
proves to be fraudulent, sorry for you. The issuing bank will issue a
charge
back to your bank and you will have the charges reversed. Plus you will
pay a
significant charge back fee. If the situation happens automatically the
fees
can go up and you can lose your merchant account.

Depends on the card.


That is why it behooves merchant to diligently check those signatures and
hang
on to receipts with the signatures on them. If they accept credit cards
without
signatures (e.g. at a self-fueling pump) the risks are increased and the
benefits of increased legitimate sales need to offset those risks.

So which is it? Signed or swiped?

How about if they accept a fraudulently issued card?

Remember, the topic was (originally) a falsely obtained card, not a stolen
one (of course, the OP meandered back and forth so many times...).

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 07:30:06 -0700, quietguy wrote:

Correct -- as I've since found out. I'm learning more by the minute
about ID theft and its repercussions.

We have several "rainy day" credit cards in a safety deposit box at the
bank that we have *never* used.

Imagine my surprise when I got home from vacation in February to find my
message machine contained 2 automated suspected fraud calls on two of those
cards.

Phone calls revealed two $300 internet charges to cell phone vendors on one
card and one $200 internet charge to another cell phone vendor on an other
card.

My best guess is that someone pulled a credit report on me and used the
printed card numbers off of it.

So... try as you might... you can't get away from these scum.

--
Dallas

C J Campbell wrote:

If the FBO pursued its claim against you, you would be able to sue them
for defamation,

Defamation? Sending you a bill is not defamation, even if they
intentionally sent it to you knowing you weren't responsible for it.

claim damages for fraud,

What fraud?

? and possibly press criminal
charges for conspiracy to defraud you.

Conspiracy to do what?

You need to get your legal theory from someone other than judge judy.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
C J Campbell wrote:

If the FBO pursued its claim against you, you would be able to sue them
for defamation,

Defamation? Sending you a bill is not defamation, even if they
intentionally sent it to you knowing you weren't responsible for it.

Did you read the part about "If the FBO pursued its claim against you..."?

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
C J Campbell wrote:

If the FBO pursued its claim against you, you would be able to sue them
for defamation,
Defamation? Sending you a bill is not defamation, even if they
intentionally sent it to you knowing you weren't responsible for it.

Did you read the part about "If the FBO pursued its claim against you..."?




Yes I did, and the answer would be that.
It's not defamation. Do you have a clue what defamation is?
Sending out bills and filing lawsuits or whatever to try to
collect is not.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
Matt Barrow wrote:
"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
...
C J Campbell wrote:

If the FBO pursued its claim against you, you would be able to sue them
for defamation,
Defamation? Sending you a bill is not defamation, even if they
intentionally sent it to you knowing you weren't responsible for it.

Did you read the part about "If the FBO pursued its claim against
you..."?




Yes I did, and the answer would be that.
It's not defamation. Do you have a clue what defamation is?

Yeah...it's what happens when someone knowingly and willfully files a false
calim against you, encumbering your credit rating.

Sending out bills and filing lawsuits or whatever to try to
collect is not.

See above.

C J Campbell wrote:

On 2007-06-30 20:26:11 -0700, quietguy said:

His use of jet fuel is one thing
that will save me from having to pay for his travels. If he'd bought
100LL I might very well have been stuck for the tab; the FBO might
have argued that I'd used the not-yet-airborne tail-number to bolster
a fraudulent claim of identity theft after actually fueling a flyable
aircraft.

Pure nonsense. Federal laws limit your liability with stolen cards

True. The liability is limited to $50.00 for credit cards.

and
you have no liability at all for a fraudulent card.

Not necessarily, you could be liable for up to $50.00 under the regs/laws.
Mastercard and Visa both voluntarily limit liability to $0 for U.S. cards
*if* they agree that the transaction was fraud and *if* the card was from a
personal account. They don't extend this voluntary limit to business
credit cards. Beyond that, YMMV from bank to bank.

Peter cannot
collude with Paul to sell Paul 100 gallons of avgas (or anything else)
and make you pay for it. This is a fundamental point of common law -- a
third party cannot be bound by a contract between two other parties.

True



If the FBO pursued its claim against you, you would be able to sue them
for defamation, claim damages for fraud, and possibly press criminal
charges for conspiracy to defraud you.

Under many states' consumer protection laws, including NJ, MA, and PA, if
you receive a bill that you are not responsible for you can sue for treble
(triple) damages and court/attorney fees if the other parties does not make
things whole in a set time frame. Typically this involves sending a demand
letter protesting unfair business practices and waiting 30 days from
receipt for the other party to rescind the phony bills. Example statue:
http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/gl-93a-toc.htm (particularly section
9). Hope this helps!