PW-6U by Jezow being delivered

"Charles Yeates" wrote in message
...

http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/yeatesc/world.html

The PW-6U is a great club glider. It's solid and easy to fly. I wish Jesow
and Charles Yeats a lot of success with it.

Bill Daniels

At 17:24 14 August 2007, Marc Ramsey wrote:
Charles Yeates wrote:
http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/yeatesc/world.html

Gee, only about US $90K delivered. I'm not complaining,
it's probably a
bargain compared to a new K-21 or DG-505. I just find
it amusing that
some wonder why a lot a clubs stick with their 2-33s...

Marc


At $90,000 it seems to make more sense to go for the
new Perkoz, since it's going into production---+9 to
-6 G's, 40/1 L/D, 17m/20m tips. Acro, X/C, training...Good
pilot reports on characteristics. SZD had 20 years
to work out the bugs in the Poochie, and the SZD 54
'seems' like a more promising ship for the price. I
guess time will tell. If I had the money, I would wait
and see myself.

Paul Hanson
"Do the usual, unusually well"--Len Niemi

I do have numbers, thanks to John Roake, and membership
in Germany
is actually collapsing faster than anywhere in the
world - (32,229
members in 2006 vs 37,624 in 1996, continuous decline).
I have no
idea why (does anyone else know?).

Much of that decline could be explained by demographics.
The German
population is getting older because of a very low birth
rate and many of
their well educated youth are leaving for jobs in lower
tax rate countries.

I Googled German demographics and found this article
from 2006. This
is a problem throughout Europe. Somewhere around 56%
of the
specialist doctors in England are from Asia and the
Middle East because
most of the British trained doctors live and work in
the US.

'The exodus of Germans being lured away from home is
greater today
than at any time since statisticians began collecting
figures about
population movements in the 1950s.

Last year, for the first time since 1968, more people
left Germany than
arrived, according to Destatis, the federal statistical
office. It estimates
that 144,815 Germans left the country last year because
of high
unemployment, better opportunities or, in some cases,
tax.''

German demographers were shocked in 1987 when the latest
census put
the population at 82.4m – 1.3m lower than projected.
But a more
unpleasant surprise could be in store for Germans as
work for the next
census gets under way this week. The previous emigration
record of
1956 was breached in 1994 and, after several years
of decline, the
outflow began rising again in 2001, and continued to
rise up to 2004,
although 2005’s figure of 144,815 was slightly down
on the year before.

“There has definitely been an increase [in German emigration]
over the
past two to three years,” said Christina Busch at the
Raphael-Werke, an
organisation that counsels would-be emigrants. “What
worries me is that
99.9 per cent of those I see have qualifications. Many
have children.
Some even have good jobs. And most want a clean break
– they do not
intend to come back.”

Architects, engineers, lorry drivers, scientists and
social workers are
leaving in droves, according to figures. The outflow
of doctors towards
Scandinavia is such that the medical faculty of Erlangen
University
recently started offering Swedish courses to its students.'

'For former East Germany, the outlook is particularly
grim. Another IAB
study estimates the region’s population will drop from
15m to 9m by
2050.'

The missing point is that it is not what you fly- it is that you fly.

I cannot really image that new shiny glas ships make all that
difference. When I took up gliding with 15 years of age I was trained
on the K13 and soon flew Ka8 and Ka6. I always thought these were
beautiful gliders and a lot of fun to fly.

In my opinion the main problem of declining numbers of glider pilots
in germany is that society has changed over the past 25 years. People
used to have comfortable jobs with a lot of spare time. They could
afford to support a family and still put a lot of time into gliding
clubs. Now jobs are more demanding and time consuming. People tend to
have more money but less time to spend it. This seriously affects the
structure of many german gliding clubs which depend on the time and
commitment of their members to keep operating at low costs. Nowadays
many people can more easily afford to get a brand new high performance
self launcher than putting a lot of time into the club. In the long
run I think we are going from a commitment supported structure to a
cash and carry service oriented structure. I find this sad because all
those 14-year-olds of the future won't be able to afford gliding
anymore.

Many german clubs have been building and improving their fleet for 50
years. By good maintenance and care, these fleets hardly loose value
and upgrading to the next better model isn't such a big step to take.
I think that is why you find so many nice fleets over here. I don't
really see how you want to go from 2-33 to DG1000 in just one step.

One of the main reasons many german clubs are trading their K13s for
fiberglass trainers is not that they are more attractive to new
members but because of their easier maintainance. Fibreglass ships
usually just need a bit of polishing while a wooden glider needs a
major overhaul every 10 - 15years. With decreasing numbers of members
this is becoming increasingly difficult to accomplish. Metal gliders
are not as popular because there is far less knowledge of how to
maintain and repair them;-)

"alex8735" wrote in message
ups.com...
The missing point is that it is not what you fly- it is that you fly.

I cannot really image that new shiny glas ships make all that
difference. When I took up gliding with 15 years of age I was trained
on the K13 and soon flew Ka8 and Ka6. I always thought these were
beautiful gliders and a lot of fun to fly.

Yes, these are beautiful gliders and fun to fly. If only they had become
popular in the US. The 2-33 isn't even remotely in their league.

I suspect many in this discussion haven't even been in the front seat of a
2-33 in years - if ever. If you haven't, you need to go sit in one. The
first thing you will notice is that you are very uncomfortable. Then you
will notice that unless you have legs like straws you won't have full
aileron movement - in fact, you may have less than half. If you continue to
experiment with various control positions you will find something really
startling. If the spoiler control is positioned at 50%, where it would be
in a normal approach, your left leg will be trapped between the stick and
spoiler control blocking all left aileron. In fact, the stick will actually
strike the spoiler handle if you somehow remove your leg. If your arms are
not average or longer, you will find full down elevator is unavailable.
These are serious deficiencies and would most likely make the 2-33
impossible to certificate under current FAR 23 or JAR 22 rules.

Now get in the back seat - if you can. You will be even more uncomfortable
with the seat to back angle less than 90 degrees. Imagine an average size
student in the front seat blocking your view of the instruments. (For those
who haven't seen a 2-33, there are no instruments in the back seat.) Now
look up and to the side and see the wings blocking your view into a turn.
Ask yourself if you would be comfortable in a gaggle with a new student in
the front seat. Ask yourself if you would be willing to sit here for 8
hours instructing. Would you ask anyone else to do so?

Now get out - if you can. Inspect the glider carefully. Keep in mind that
these are very old gliders which have led a hard life. Look at the rusty
screen door springs holding the rudder pedals forward. If one of these
breaks, which they do regularly, the affected pedal will flop flat to the
floor where most pilots can't get it back into place while flying. Ask if
you would be comfortable with your child in the air with a missing rudder
pedal.

Pay particular attention to the upper surface of the "D"-tube skin. You
may well find diagonal cracks in the metal skin or patches where someone
else found cracks - these are metal fatigue. Look at the skins around the
inboard ends of the ailerons for cracks - another favorite place for fatigue
cracks. If there are patches, ask if anyone inspected the internal wing
structure for more cracks.

Now place your hand on the fin leading edge and lightly push aft. Be
prepared for the base of the fin leading edge to separate from the
fuselage. The single 3/16" bolt, or the thin aluminum tab that holds the
fin LE has broken on many 2-33's and has not been caught for many annual
inspections.

Notice I didn't ask anyone to actually fly the thing. That would be over
the top.

Bill Daniels

On Aug 16, 11:51 am, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:
....
I suspect many in this discussion haven't even been in the front seat of a
2-33 in years - if ever. If you haven't, you need to go sit in one. The
first thing you will notice is that you are very uncomfortable. Then you
will notice that unless you have legs like straws you won't have full
aileron movement - in fact, you may have less than half. If you continue to
experiment with various control positions you will find something really
startling. If the spoiler control is positioned at 50%, where it would be
in a normal approach, your left leg will be trapped between the stick and
spoiler control blocking all left aileron. In fact, the stick will actually
strike the spoiler handle if you somehow remove your leg. If your arms are
not average or longer, you will find full down elevator is unavailable.
These are serious deficiencies and would most likely make the 2-33
impossible to certificate under current FAR 23 or JAR 22 rules.

....

This certainly was my experience flying in a 2-33. If it handled 1/3
as sweetly as a 1-26, much fewer would complain about them.

Todd Smith
3S

At 08:54 19 August 2007, Dan G wrote:

The new 'XL' cockpit is clearly SH's second attempt
to catch up with the DG, rectifying the problems of
the 'snug' Janus fuselage.


Just for interest - as I was looking around the prototype
Duo X at the factory in May 2005 one of the staff told
me that they were already planning modifications o
the cockpit 'to improve the separation of the pilots',
as he put it.



As far as I can tell, the only difference applicable
in normal flight
is the addition of winglets. How much effect does fitting
winglets
have? I seem to remember that they could only achieve
a benefit within quite a narrow speed range.

That was true about some older winglets designs but
whole point of the Maughmer winglets now used on Schempp-Hirth
gliders is that there is either performance benefit
or no loss throughout the cross country flying speed
range. See Prof Maughmer's articles at:

http://www.mandhsoaring.com/winglets.html

Are DG's all finished in poly? What about Duo and
other SH products? Poly or gel?

Personally I think the exchange rate being a little
more favorable would make either ship more appealing.

On Aug 19, 3:51 pm, Stewart Kissel
wrote:
Are DG's all finished in poly? What about Duo and
other SH products? Poly or gel?

Personally I think the exchange rate being a little
more favorable would make either ship more appealing.

Does any sailplane manufacturer not have poly/acrylic paint as an
option now? On DG sailplanes it is an option, not standard, at least
the last DG price book I looked at. SH I think paint is still an
option not standard. But poly/acrylic paint is available on both and I
don't see why anybody now days would not go that way. For a few $k and
considering the base price of these sailplanes I'm suprised anybody
ordering one today would want to save a few $K by avoiding the paint
option.

That thick DG gel coat that looks just beautiful out of the factory is
prone to temperature cycling related cracking on the upper wing,
usually running from the spoiler box to the trailing edge. We had one
such crack in our gelcoat finished club DG-1000S ground out and
repaired but you never know it may come back. I have one similar in my
DG-303 barely visible but its there. I expect choosing poly/acrylic
paint would greatly reduce the chance of any similar cracking. My
*impression* is the SH gelcoat does not stand up to UV exposure as
well as the DG gelcoat do, but are much less prone to temperature
related cracks. I think Jack Harkin's new Duo-X (mentioned in other
Duo threads) has paint, but I'm not sure (she looks beautiful,
sigh, ... I'm in love).

It is nice to see some manufactures stopping messing around with long
lists of options and doing things like making acrylic paint the
standard, like Schleicher on the new ASH-30 (yes I know for the price
you'd hope so).

Darryl