You mean I have to TALK to ATC? - long

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 11:50:57 -0700, Jay Honeck
wrote:

It
seems rather quaint, with so many students training in glass
cockpits...

How many students AREN'T training behind glass?

How many students AREN'T training behind glass?

Well, my 17-year-old son is training in an old, clapped out Cessna
150, just like a couple of generations before him...

The only thing glass in that plane is probably the electrical
insulators...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:


I'm not saying VORs don't have a place anymore. I'm just surprised to
hear primary students flying around solely by reference to them. It
seems rather quaint, with so many students training in glass
cockpits...

I've never flown a glass cockpit, but they must use VOR navigation
devices like any other.

In article .com,
says...

I'm not saying VORs don't have a place anymore. I'm just surprised to
hear primary students flying around solely by reference to them. It
seems rather quaint, with so many students training in glass cockpits


I think the "typical" training environment today (for basic PPL) is a 152/172
with the same panel they had 20 years ago, albeit with an add-on G430 which may
or may not be certified WAAS (little importance for the PPL student). The
instructors will turn off the GPS 90% of the time.


--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Compasses and dead reckoning still work. Remember that
little blurb in the instrument rules 61.65, Navigation,
including dead reckoning appropriate to IFR.

Procedure turns, and NORDO are just some of the DR
situations, GPS and or VOR OTS are others.


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
| I was flying to Reno last week and there was a GPS outage
part of the way
| there. I had a couple guys with me and they just looked
at me when the MX20
| and the 296 went blank. I just tuned in to the next VOR
and kept going 10
| minutes later they came back.
|
| Interesting. I've had a similar experience where I lost
one (or two)
| GPS's (for reasons unknown) -- but I've never lost *both*
of them.
|
| I'm not saying VORs don't have a place anymore. I'm just
surprised to
| hear primary students flying around solely by reference to
them. It
| seems rather quaint, with so many students training in
glass
| cockpits...
| --
| Jay Honeck
| Iowa City, IA
| Pathfinder N56993
| www.AlexisParkInn.com
| "Your Aviation Destination"
|

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 06:56:28 -0700, Jay Honeck wrote:

I'm surprised to see that primary students are still flying VOR
radials.

The DE might be disappointed on the checkride if the student didn't know
what a VOR was.

:-)

--
Dallas

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...
We picked up our radial (352 FROM SYI, i think), and headed for MQY.

The trip back was pretty cool. I opted to fly the VOR all the way into
SYI,

I'm surprised to see that primary students are still flying VOR
radials. I thought that had gone the way of ADFs and light beacons,
but I guess not.

Jay,

If they took my OBS out of my plane, I'd probably quit flying! I don't
know why, but VOR and NDB type navigation has always been "fun" for me. I
love using the chart to triangulate my position and (like I said in the
blog), I've even figured out several "original" ways to use VOR's to figure
out where I am. Of course, I always found out later that my "original"
ideas were usually 50 years old and put out of use by GPS (or even DME! ).

Call me a geek, but I just think the whole radio navigation game is a lot of
fun. Don't get me wrong. The day I can afford one of those fancy dancy
moving map panels....I just might get one.....but I still want my steam OBS


jf

Jeff wrote:

snip

Apparently, we were inside someone else's practice are, because we got
to fly some formation maneuvers with a Piper who liked our airspace. We
safely snuck behind him, but I still don't think he ever saw us.
jf


snip

Pardon me for jumping into this thread, but the paragraph above left me
a bit shocked. At no time did either of you think to *contact* this
aircraft, to advise the pilot that you were in *his* vicinity?

If he suddenly performed a steep turn, or any extreme direction change,
how would that have affected your position?

I was under the impression that *see and be seen* was paramount for
safety in the air?

Anyway .. nice story otherwise.

__
zb

PS: Finally, what is it with all the aggressive attitude against certain
posters in newsgroups? IMHO It's exceedingly immature and disheartening
in this day and age. My 2c.

"zac.badenoff" zac wrote

PS: Finally, what is it with all the aggressive attitude against certain
posters in newsgroups? IMHO It's exceedingly immature and disheartening in
this day and age. My 2c.

Do some googling on past threads, or stick around for a couple days.

The hostility is well earned, and deserved.

If you are talking about MXSMANIC, he is a self-proclaimed expert on
EVERYTHING from flying air transport aircraft to breast feeding. (on their
newsgroup) If you don't believe that one, go to the group and poke around
and ask questions and google.

He should be in a Psycho ward, and on some strong medication. Instead, he
trolls here,and elsewhere, ****ing off everyone with arguments, that when
proven to be incorrect, he dismisses as incorrect, and the poster
irrelevant.

If you don't want to be quickly classified with him, I would suggest you not
stick up for him. You too, will tire of him in a hurry, and wonder why you
ever thought he deserved the benefit of the doubt.
--
Jim in NC

"zac.badenoff" wrote in message
...
Jeff wrote:

snip

Apparently, we were inside someone else's practice are, because we got
to fly some formation maneuvers with a Piper who liked our airspace. We
safely snuck behind him, but I still don't think he ever saw us.
jf

snip

Pardon me for jumping into this thread, but the paragraph above left me a
bit shocked. At no time did either of you think to *contact* this
aircraft, to advise the pilot that you were in *his* vicinity?

If he suddenly performed a steep turn, or any extreme direction change,
how would that have affected your position?

I was under the impression that *see and be seen* was paramount for safety
in the air?

Anyway .. nice story otherwise.

__
zb

I was about to contact him when he turned away from us. We were really
never that close, but there was a time he stopped "moving" in my windshield,
so I opted to turn towards where he'd been (behind him) and keep a close eye
as we past above and behind him. I'm terrible at determining distance
plane-to-plane. We were close enough to get my attention, but never so
close that I felt like there was a real problem (of course I'm just the
student here ).

As for the "hostility", please don't judge this group by a few posts! These
guys have helped me immensly in the years I've been lurking here. Great
guys who go out of their way to help (and even give out free beer a few days
prior to Oshkosh (and even some during)). Hang around here a while. It's a
great place to be. there are just a few posters who like to cause problems
and have more than worn out their welcome with some folks (ok...most folks).

jf