Mounties Electrocute Airline Passenger

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:45:08 -0500, Dave S
wrote in :

Larry Dighera wrote:
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 12:01:34 -0500, Dave S
wrote in :

Tazers have actually been proven to REDUCE injury rates overall, both in
suspects

Can you cite any evidence that supports that assertion?

AND in officers.. TREMENDOUSLY reduce them,

I can see how that would be true.

and associated workers comp claims.

Well, that's what's important. :-(


I will research that assertion and get back to you. Ive heard only
third-hand but from personally credible individuals that this is the
case where I live.

Overall the turds get injured less, and the cops get injured less. I
sincerely do not believe that the tasing itself is the causative factor
in apprehensive deaths. Turds.. I mean "suspects".. as a general rule
are directly responsible for the events leading to their apprehension,
and if injured, directly responsbible for causing an incident to
escalate to the point of their injury. Its really that simple.

Practically every officer in my region, to carry a taser, has to be
tased once: if this was lethal force, would they be doing that?

The workers comp thing wasn't meant to be coy. Less injured cops means
more police on the street, and more productive policing. Better use of
YOUR tax dollars at protecting YOU.

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 18:45:08 -0500, Dave S
wrote in :

Turds.. I mean "suspects".. as a general rule
are directly responsible for the events leading to their apprehension,
and if injured, directly responsbible for causing an incident to
escalate to the point of their injury. Its really that simple.

Don't get me wrong, but I find your attitude toward SUSPECTS less than
respectful, to say the least. I'm sure you have encountered many
suspects who deserve to be called much worse, but in the US they are
_innocent_ suspects, regardless of how you feel toward them and
regardless of what information you may have about them, until they
have been convicted in a court of law (yes, that's the law in Texas
too). Such an attitude reflects badly on LEOs in general, and it
speaks volumes ...

I saw a piece on the NBC Nightly News recently about a patrol of four
Navy Seals on a mission in Iraq. It told the story of the soldier
leading them, and how, in the face of them surely informing Al Qaeda
about their patrol, he release some Iraqi civilians that the patrol
encountered, rather than silence them in cold blood. Sure enough, Al
Qaeda was informed, and launched 200 soldiers against the four man US
patrol that resulted in the death of the Seal who had released the
civilians. Despite the deadly danger it placed him in, he knew what
was right and just, and did it despite personal risk. That noble Seal
embodies the spirit of American justice, and he makes me proud to be
an American.

It seems many of us have forgotten that we Americans are not like much
of the world; our determination to uphold justice and freedom used to
set us apart, until the current regime in power in this country
started approving of torturing prisoners, warrantless invasion of
privacy, and trampling on our Constitution.

The leader of our country, while he was governor of Texas, put more
"criminals" to death than all the rest of the states combined, IIRC.
Perhaps such disrespect for human life and moral justice is unique to
Texas or a result of shallow insight, but it is reprehensible none the
less. It saddens me to see America losing its way through the
darkness of tyranny and injustice, and joining the unenlightened in
trampling human dignity. It always starts at the top.

The leader of our country, while he was governor of Texas, put more
"criminals" to death than all the rest of the states combined, IIRC.
Perhaps such disrespect for human life and moral justice is unique to
Texas or a result of shallow insight, but it is reprehensible none the
less. It saddens me to see America losing its way through the
darkness of tyranny and injustice, and joining the unenlightened in
trampling human dignity. It always starts at the top.

Your knowledge of American history shows definite signs of a
revisionist education.

It's only been in the last 30 years that Americans turned into the
pansies of the world. What you now call "justice" and "nobility" most
of the world called "stupid" and "ineffective".

From the debacle at Desert One (under our now media-revered Jimmy
Carter) until we invaded Afghanistan, America was viewed world-wide as
the superpower that was afraid of a fight. Sure, we'd launch a few
F-111s to drop bombs on bedouins, but it was widely assumed by tyrants
and petty dictators that America was too shell-shocked from Viet Nam
to ever put boots on the ground.

Even the Coalition's stunning success in Kuwait, during Desert Storm,
didn't fully dispel the notion that we wouldn't fight back. Guys like
Sadaam and bin Laden were encouraged by our failure to finish the
job.

IMHO, it was this perception that made us susceptible to attack. The
Islamo-Fascists continued their ever-escalating attacks through 9/11,
when America was finally shaken from its slumber and began kicking
back. Since then, the terrorists have been completely neutralized --
truly a great, historic American victory.

Of course, the liberal media won't present it that way, perhaps ever.
Remember, this is the same group that can't see Korea and Viet Nam as
anything but "American meddling in civil wars." Students of history
understand the significance of these battles, and the fact that they
were, in fact, different fronts in our (victorious) decades-long Cold
War with the Soviet Union and China.

The pendulum has now swung back, perhaps too far the other way.
Sadly, this is normal, in a republic like ours. I suspect it will be
corrected at the next election cycle. (Although, of course, it is
hopelessly simplistic to believe that anything substantive will change
as the result of a presidential election.)

Either way, I completely sympathize with Dave's point of view. Our
society has a large segment of easily identified, blatantly arrogant
scum that make up the lion's share of criminal perps. The cops know
who they are, and anyone with a brain stem knows who they are -- yet
most of the time society is at their mercy until they get caught red-
handed.

It's the domestic version of TSA strip-searching an old lady in order
to look like they're not "profiling". We know who the enemy is, but
we force our gendarmes to put on a huge show of "fairness", even if it
means shaming ourselves and making the streets more dangerous.

Dealing with that segment day after day -- as our "Thin Blue Line"
does -- would harden anyone. The police have my utmost respect.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

("Larry Dighera" wrote)
The leader of our country, while he was governor of Texas, put more
"criminals" to death than all the rest of the states combined, IIRC.
Perhaps such disrespect for human life and moral justice is unique to
Texas or a result of shallow insight, but it is reprehensible none the
less. It saddens me to see America losing its way through the
darkness of tyranny and injustice, and joining the unenlightened in
trampling human dignity. It always starts at the top.


I see no difference between hitting the beaches at Normandy and hitting the
switch for the electric chair - both are necessary in combating
....."evil-doers".


Montblack

On 2007-10-18 03:59:07 -0700, Larry Dighera said:


It seems many of us have forgotten that we Americans are not like much
of the world; our determination to uphold justice and freedom used to
set us apart, until the current regime in power in this country
started approving of torturing prisoners, warrantless invasion of
privacy, and trampling on our Constitution.

The leader of our country, while he was governor of Texas, put more
"criminals" to death than all the rest of the states combined, IIRC.
Perhaps such disrespect for human life and moral justice is unique to
Texas or a result of shallow insight, but it is reprehensible none the
less. It saddens me to see America losing its way through the
darkness of tyranny and injustice, and joining the unenlightened in
trampling human dignity. It always starts at the top.

Which President did NOT order people tortured, detained without trial,
or snooped upon?

Wiretaps for a long time required no court order at all; they were
regularly used by the likes of Eliot Ness.

Now, perhaps you can give an example of a prisoner that was tortured
and the current administration actually approved of it?
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

In article , says...


Larry Dighera wrote:
Is airline passenger abuse on the rise as a result of passenger
reaction to airline delays?



Tazers have actually been proven to REDUCE injury rates overall, both in
suspects AND in officers.. TREMENDOUSLY reduce them, and associated
workers comp claims.



I am confident that competent experts and due process will determine whether
excessive or inappropriate force was used to subdue the gentleman (do I sound
confident?)

The guy certainly had a problem, and would appear to be an excellent candidate
for denial of entry to the country, if such was his intention. After all, if he
cannot even get out of the arrivals lounge before the fixtures start flying,
then this is an exemplary opportunity to nip one in the bud!

On the other hand - he may have suffered abuse as a child. Perhaps, in his
youth, he was forced to take repeated flights on Iberia Airlines. Now, years
later, every time he flies the rage resurfaces from that psychological
mistreatment buried deep within. In this case we have no choice but to view him
as a perpetrator and victim . . .

Larry Dighera wrote:
Is airline passenger abuse on the rise as a result of passenger
reaction to airline delays?


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...r.html?ref=rss


What passenger abuse? The man was out of control until the cops zapped him. He
must have had a weak heart... maybe helped along by some chemical recreational
aids.

You consider controlling a berserk person abuse? What should the cops have
tried first? Time out?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

On Wed, 17 Oct 2007 13:13:37 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com wrote in
:

Larry Dighera wrote:
Is airline passenger abuse on the rise as a result of passenger
reaction to airline delays?


http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...r.html?ref=rss


What passenger abuse? The man was out of control until the cops zapped him.

It sounds like the passenger was maniacal well after that. Have you
any idea how long a Taser is capable of sustained high-voltage output?
Is it controllable by the LEO? Until a dart is removed, I would think
the LEO could continue to apply high-voltage until the battery was
exhausted.

He must have had a weak heart... maybe helped along by some chemical recreational
aids.

Perhaps. I doubt the coroner will find the passenger to have expired
as a result of the Mounties arresting the passenger. It would be
interesting to know where the darts hit the passenger.

If it was across the chest, I can see how the Taser may have
precipitated a heart attack.

You consider controlling a berserk person abuse? What should the cops have
tried first? Time out?

Mace? Wrestle him to the floor? A net? Something with less lethal
potential than 100,000 volts?

Larry Dighera wrote:


Mace? Wrestle him to the floor? A net? Something with less lethal
potential than 100,000 volts?

50,000 Volts, 18 Watts and 133 MilliAmps

Larry Dighera wrote:


Mace? Wrestle him to the floor? A net? Something with less lethal
potential than 100,000 volts?

It's easy to make those kinds of suggestions when you're not the one doing
the wrestling.

It's also easy to avoid being shot with a tazer - don't resist arrest.
Probably works 99.99999999% of the time.

Disclaimer: This being the internet age and all (thanks Al) there is
probably the odd case someone could dig up where a perfectly innocent person
who was not resisting arrest was still shot with a tazer. I would suggest
that the chance of this happening is statistically far less than say, having
your engine fall out of your airplane.

BDS