Gene Whitt's Lawsuit

On Dec 8, 4:32 pm, wrote:
Ok, its not logical to me but if that is the way it is then that's
what it is! I can understand private airports not allowing anybody
to operate due to liability reasons but a public airport allowing
unknown strangers to operate freely if they are based elsewhere but at
the same time not allowing the same operations if they originate from
the same airport strikes me as a bit weird.





What this has to do with Mr Pai, is whatever the owners and/or operators
of the airport and the underwriters that insure the airport say it does
as they operate the airport under present law.
The legal definitions in place of what can take place on the airport,
originate from the airport, or take place on the airport in aircraft
arriving there from other locations all come under the above as it
covers these situations.
The fact that something doesn't make sense to you has nothing whatsoever
to do with the issue.

--
Dudley Henriques- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I think you are exactly right.
They are not consistant or reasonable.
If they are not illeagal then washington will be notified and the
rules will be changed.
I guess J. Inhofe can't get his BFR done at the Sand Spring William
Pogue Airport, it would be illeagal!
Good job, guys, defend YOUR rights.
Homer

On Dec 8, 4:32 pm, wrote:
Ok, its not logical to me but if that is the way it is then that's
what it is! I can understand private airports not allowing anybody
to operate due to liability reasons but a public airport allowing
unknown strangers to operate freely if they are based elsewhere but at
the same time not allowing the same operations if they originate from
the same airport strikes me as a bit weird.





What this has to do with Mr Pai, is whatever the owners and/or operators
of the airport and the underwriters that insure the airport say it does
as they operate the airport under present law.
The legal definitions in place of what can take place on the airport,
originate from the airport, or take place on the airport in aircraft
arriving there from other locations all come under the above as it
covers these situations.
The fact that something doesn't make sense to you has nothing whatsoever
to do with the issue.

--
Dudley Henriques- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Very wierd

On Dec 1, 7:55 pm, wrote:
Anyone have a link to or a copy of the lawsuit Gene Whitt filed
against the airport that stopped freelance CFI's from operating from
there. My local airport is attempting the same thing and I'm
gathering information for the freelance CFI's I know..

Hello everyone on this board. Thanks your support of general aviation.
Here are some details. I am a CFI trying to offer instruction at the
Sand Springs Oklahome William Pogue Municipal Airport. I have been
informed by Ken, the "Airport manager, Attendant" that I may not
provide CFI services. I have contacted the FAA, and a gentleman in
Austin Texas and countless peers who all side with me on the issue.
The airport attendant, Ken has provided me with several pages of
"minimum Standards," which are unreasonable to say the least. The
standards require me to rent space, build a building, a parking lot,
with bathrooms and public phones and classrooms. All of this- save
for handicap access and insurance, two plane and pavement to the
runway!!!... CLEARLY not in a CFI's budget.
I will fight this battle with all of your support and for general
aviation.
If anyone would like to come out for a flying lesson at Sand Springs,
Oklahoma, just bring lunch money and gas money and I'll show you what
I am dealing with. My tel number is 918.271.1099 Best Regards, Homer
Woolslayer, Equinox Instruction
Thank you all !!!

wrote:
On Dec 1, 7:55 pm, wrote:
Anyone have a link to or a copy of the lawsuit Gene Whitt filed
against the airport that stopped freelance CFI's from operating from
there. My local airport is attempting the same thing and I'm
gathering information for the freelance CFI's I know..

Hello everyone on this board. Thanks your support of general aviation.
Here are some details. I am a CFI trying to offer instruction at the
Sand Springs Oklahome William Pogue Municipal Airport. I have been
informed by Ken, the "Airport manager, Attendant" that I may not
provide CFI services. I have contacted the FAA, and a gentleman in
Austin Texas and countless peers who all side with me on the issue.
The airport attendant, Ken has provided me with several pages of
"minimum Standards," which are unreasonable to say the least. The
standards require me to rent space, build a building, a parking lot,
with bathrooms and public phones and classrooms. All of this- save
for handicap access and insurance, two plane and pavement to the
runway!!!... CLEARLY not in a CFI's budget.
I will fight this battle with all of your support and for general
aviation.
If anyone would like to come out for a flying lesson at Sand Springs,
Oklahoma, just bring lunch money and gas money and I'll show you what
I am dealing with. My tel number is 918.271.1099 Best Regards, Homer
Woolslayer, Equinox Instruction
Thank you all !!!


As a long time free lance flight instructor I can sympathize with your
issues, but I also have questions on these issues that might address
potential problems faced by an FBO running an airport being used for
commercial purposes by a flight instructor not directly connected with
that airport as an insured employee.

Can you please post here any and all knowledge you have concerning the
potential liability situation faced by the operator of the airport you
are using to give flight instruction from as that would relate to any
accident you might have while giving dual from this airport?

What is the exact insurance issue relating to your use of the field
there as a commercial operator not directly employed by the operator
running the field?

Also, if there is a flight school operating on the field, knowing that
might be helpful in assessing your situation by others viewing your post.
Thank you

Dudley Henriques

--
Dudley Henriques

wrote:
On Dec 1, 7:55 pm, wrote:
Anyone have a link to or a copy of the lawsuit Gene Whitt filed
against the airport that stopped freelance CFI's from operating from
there. My local airport is attempting the same thing and I'm
gathering information for the freelance CFI's I know..

Hello everyone on this board. Thanks your support of general aviation.
Here are some details. I am a CFI trying to offer instruction at the
Sand Springs Oklahome William Pogue Municipal Airport. I have been
informed by Ken, the "Airport manager, Attendant" that I may not
provide CFI services. I have contacted the FAA, and a gentleman in
Austin Texas and countless peers who all side with me on the issue.
The airport attendant, Ken has provided me with several pages of
"minimum Standards," which are unreasonable to say the least. The
standards require me to rent space, build a building, a parking lot,
with bathrooms and public phones and classrooms. All of this- save
for handicap access and insurance, two plane and pavement to the
runway!!!... CLEARLY not in a CFI's budget.
I will fight this battle with all of your support and for general
aviation.
If anyone would like to come out for a flying lesson at Sand Springs,
Oklahoma, just bring lunch money and gas money and I'll show you what
I am dealing with. My tel number is 918.271.1099 Best Regards, Homer
Woolslayer, Equinox Instruction
Thank you all !!!

Have you contacted the AOPA? They may be able to point you to some
assistance. A well written letter from a lawyer to your cities airport
commission that is CC'd to the FAA's AIP and FSDO offices might be enough to
get them to flinch.

wrote:
Hello everyone on this board. Thanks your support of general aviation.
Here are some details. I am a CFI trying to offer instruction at the
Sand Springs Oklahome William Pogue Municipal Airport.

The terms of your offer need to be clarified.

If you are running advertisements to the effect that you or your
"enterprise" is to offer flight instruction to the public, then I can
see why the airport manager would get nervous since the airport is
implied as being party to it.

If you met one or more private individuals owning aircraft that want
your instructional service, then you can have a private agreement, in my
opinion, to provide him/her with instructions as long as FAA 61/91 are
adhered to.

It gets more tricky if you have an aircraft based at that field and you
offer primiary instruction in it to individuals and student pilots,
since it invariably comes to student pilots taking off solo from and
landing at that airport, when you, the instructotor must be availble,
and ther is some risk extant.

I have been
informed by Ken, the "Airport manager, Attendant" that I may not
provide CFI services. I have contacted the FAA, and a gentleman in
Austin Texas and countless peers who all side with me on the issue.
The airport attendant, Ken has provided me with several pages of
"minimum Standards," which are unreasonable to say the least. The
standards require me to rent space, build a building, a parking lot,
with bathrooms and public phones and classrooms. All of this- save
for handicap access and insurance, two plane and pavement to the
runway!!!... CLEARLY not in a CFI's budget.

This means the manager is offering the opportunity for you to set up a
formal flight school, which could be feasible, or it could be absurd
depending on your intentions and resources.

I will fight this battle with all of your support and for general
aviation.
If anyone would like to come out for a flying lesson at Sand Springs,
Oklahoma, just bring lunch money and gas money and I'll show you what
I am dealing with. My tel number is 918.271.1099 Best Regards, Homer
Woolslayer, Equinox Instruction

Sounds like you have an airplane, and have established an "enterprise".

Perhaps tere is middle ground. But the insurance companies always end
up being the spoilers in such situations since they want to reduce THEIR
risk to zero.

Good luck.

Angelo Campanella

On Dec 7, 10:24 am, Angelo Campanella
wrote:
wrote:
Hello everyone on this board. Thanks your support of general aviation.
Here are some details. I am a CFI trying to offer instruction at the
Sand Springs Oklahome William Pogue Municipal Airport.

The terms of your offer need to be clarified.

If you are running advertisements to the effect that you or your
"enterprise" is to offer flight instruction to the public, then I can
see why the airport manager would get nervous since the airport is
implied as being party to it.

If you met one or more private individuals owning aircraft that want
your instructional service, then you can have a private agreement, in my
opinion, to provide him/her with instructions as long as FAA 61/91 are
adhered to.

It gets more tricky if you have an aircraft based at that field and you
offer primiary instruction in it to individuals and student pilots,
since it invariably comes to student pilots taking off solo from and
landing at that airport, when you, the instructotor must be availble,
and ther is some risk extant.

I have been
informed by Ken, the "Airport manager, Attendant" that I may not
provide CFI services. I have contacted the FAA, and a gentleman in
Austin Texas and countless peers who all side with me on the issue.
The airport attendant, Ken has provided me with several pages of
"minimum Standards," which are unreasonable to say the least. The
standards require me to rent space, build a building, a parking lot,
with bathrooms and public phones and classrooms. All of this- save
for handicap access and insurance, two plane and pavement to the
runway!!!... CLEARLY not in a CFI's budget.

This means the manager is offering the opportunity for you to set up a
formal flight school, which could be feasible, or it could be absurd
depending on your intentions and resources.

I will fight this battle with all of your support and for general
aviation.
If anyone would like to come out for a flying lesson at Sand Springs,
Oklahoma, just bring lunch money and gas money and I'll show you what
I am dealing with. My tel number is 918.271.1099 Best Regards, Homer
Woolslayer, Equinox Instruction

Sounds like you have an airplane, and have established an "enterprise".

Perhaps tere is middle ground. But the insurance companies always end
up being the spoilers in such situations since they want to reduce THEIR
risk to zero.

Good luck.

Angelo Campanella

Hello, it is Homer the instructor with the C-150 at Sand Springs,
William Pogue Airport.
The fact is, they have verbally and in writing informed me that to
"operate" I must lease land, build a building, provide restrooms and
public phones, provide for classroom space, provide a minimum of two
planes, one with 4 seats and for IFR, they even provide demensions of
the parking lot I must provide and the taxiway to the runway I must
provide. Make no mistake, and with respect, the "minimum standards"
are not reasonable. In addition there is a considerable amount of
training traffic in and out of the airport, but from the sky and from
the other flight schools around Tulsa. Also remember that many smart
aircraft owners have planes owned by separate corporations for tax and
accounting purposes, and that from time to time, many people have
business at their local airport. What business is it of the City of
sand Springs, if I operate my plane within the rules of the FAA?
Please understand, I am not having drunkin go-cart races between the
empty tiedown spaces. I am administering Dual Flight Instruction!
The FAA FSDO, Bob Newell is very careful when he tells me that the
verbiage in the "Grant Assurance Clause" will have all of the answers
I need. he implied that I do not have a case. The problem is, he
also told me that he could not get me a copy of that document and that
I'd have to get it from Sand Springs. In essence, and according to
Bob Newell at the Oklahoma FSDO, the FAA is telling me that I am on my
own.
I hope that anyone reading this message board understands that this is
not about me. This is about you and your tax dollars being used to
build hundreds of beautiful airports all over the country that you in
fact are not welcome to use.
I have legal representation, and god willing I'll have the finances to
fight this. In the mean time, be careful if you get your plane worked
on, or your flight review performed at Sand Springs, William Pogue
Airport- it might not be legal...hehehehe
I wonder if it would be legal to get a blow-up doll, dress it as a
Spartan Student and teach it how to fly for free, all day every day at
the sand Springs William Pogue airport, just a thought...
Regards, Homer Woolslayer
I

On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 16:57:24 -0800 (PST), wrote:
snip
empty tiedown spaces. I am administering Dual Flight Instruction!
The FAA FSDO, Bob Newell is very careful when he tells me that the
verbiage in the "Grant Assurance Clause" will have all of the answers
I need. he implied that I do not have a case. The problem is, he

"I think" he's probably referring to the airport requiring the same
for all. Ours did the same, but eventually the requirements for a
business being applied to an individual were counter productive. They
did pass some rules requiring registration of those doing maintenance
(through the fence) and some fees . So far they haven't enforced such.

As for fees and registration, the airport's insurance policy may
require it and liability insurance.

also told me that he could not get me a copy of that document and that

They are about as easy to get as the daily newspaper...OK, almost.
Call the AOPA (which has been suggested several times) and ask for
"FAA Order 5190.6A, Airport Compliance handbook, Grant Assurances, and
Airport Improvement Trust Fund" These three booklets should have the
information you need and they are free. I'm looking at a set and it
only took a phone call to the AOPA get them.
The AOPA can give you more, good and up-to-date information in one
phone call than you'll get on here in a month.

I'd have to get it from Sand Springs. In essence, and according to
Bob Newell at the Oklahoma FSDO, the FAA is telling me that I am on my
own.
I hope that anyone reading this message board understands that this is
not about me. This is about you and your tax dollars being used to
build hundreds of beautiful airports all over the country that you in
fact are not welcome to use.
I have legal representation, and god willing I'll have the finances to
fight this. In the mean time, be careful if you get your plane worked
on, or your flight review performed at Sand Springs, William Pogue
Airport- it might not be legal...hehehehe
I wonder if it would be legal to get a blow-up doll, dress it as a
Spartan Student and teach it how to fly for free, all day every day at
the sand Springs William Pogue airport, just a thought...
Regards, Homer Woolslayer
I

Good Luck,

Roger (K8RI)

Don't worry about the airport manager unless you see a pile of
sandbags with a 50 cal. sticking out or anti aircraft battery. LOL