If I die...

"Crash Lander" wrote in message
...
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.

Poignant words indeed.
The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd "He
died doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the wrong way
for some reason.
Crash Lander
--
Straight and Level Down Under.
http://www.straightandleveldownunder.net/


It is one thing to die while flying. Quite another to kill
yourself/others while flying.

Al G

Paul,

it has always been a sore spot with me when the local coffee pot squadron
(or the usenet) folks
begin a spirited debate on a fresh accident that involves a fatality. I
believe the issue for me is the
timing and raw speculation proceeding real data.

In an effort to pave the way for aviation commerce the United States had the
foresight to develop an amazing
system to investigate accidents, disseminate any conclusions and make
adjustments in the regulations and
recommended operating procedures in response. Every time I respond to a
controller with the chant "maintain XXXXft until established on a published
portion of the approach" I am reminded of that system. It may not be
perfect, but it
is certainly the model. I *do* believe strongly that studying these
details is a component of our aviation learning
and certainly improve my personal safety. I wish people would sit down
with them in a quiet room and read them in the spirit of "there but for the
grace of God go I ..."

It is a fresh subject for me as I was an a recent pilot gathering and
everyone wanted to speculate about Dr. Mayo and the Faribault accident.
For my part I wanted to shout, there were two teenagers killed, and for all
you know a friend or relative is within earshot. Furthermore I doubt the
combined experience of the audience added up to his total flight hours --
that is what really chapped me.

There is something ignoble about the sense of gravitas and authority that
people assume with these things.
Its like the NASCAR crowd (the smallest component) that want something
dramatic to happen to fill some kind of Walter-Mitty void in their lives.
Some of the skydiving crowd really gave me the creeps in this regard.

Your posted "will and testament" is a noble one.

For my part, if I am killed flying -- come to my funeral and say something
nice -- if someone from the media asks you a question please don't say "he
was such a careful pilot" -- and later if the circumstances strike a nerve
then please delve into the accident details and conclusions offered by the
professionals. And if seeing my mistake spares you, then I'll congradulate
you in Heaven.

But if some nerd (wearing a sport's pilot shirt with epaulets his mother
sew'd on) runs to his computer 10 minutes after my accident I'll haunt you
from my grave.

Hah!
Todd

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
If I should die while diving.

"Todd W. Deckard" wrote in
:

Paul,

it has always been a sore spot with me when the local coffee pot
squadron (or the usenet) folks
begin a spirited debate on a fresh accident that involves a fatality.
I believe the issue for me is the
timing and raw speculation proceeding real data.

In an effort to pave the way for aviation commerce the United States
had the foresight to develop an amazing
system to investigate accidents, disseminate any conclusions and make
adjustments in the regulations and
recommended operating procedures in response. Every time I respond
to a controller with the chant "maintain XXXXft until established on a
published portion of the approach" I am reminded of that system. It
may not be perfect, but it
is certainly the model. I *do* believe strongly that studying these
details is a component of our aviation learning
and certainly improve my personal safety. I wish people would sit
down with them in a quiet room and read them in the spirit of "there
but for the grace of God go I ..."

It is a fresh subject for me as I was an a recent pilot gathering and
everyone wanted to speculate about Dr. Mayo and the Faribault
accident. For my part I wanted to shout, there were two teenagers
killed, and for all you know a friend or relative is within earshot.
Furthermore I doubt the combined experience of the audience added up
to his total flight hours -- that is what really chapped me.

There is something ignoble about the sense of gravitas and authority
that people assume with these things.
Its like the NASCAR crowd (the smallest component) that want something
dramatic to happen to fill some kind of Walter-Mitty void in their
lives. Some of the skydiving crowd really gave me the creeps in this
regard.

Your posted "will and testament" is a noble one.

For my part, if I am killed flying -- come to my funeral and say
something nice -- if someone from the media asks you a question please
don't say "he was such a careful pilot" -- and later if the
circumstances strike a nerve then please delve into the accident
details and conclusions offered by the professionals. And if seeing
my mistake spares you, then I'll congradulate you in Heaven.

But if some nerd (wearing a sport's pilot shirt with epaulets his
mother sew'd on) runs to his computer 10 minutes after my accident
I'll haunt you from my grave.


Hear hear.


Bertie

In a previous article, "Todd W. Deckard" said:
Your posted "will and testament" is a noble one.

For my part, if I am killed flying -- come to my funeral and say something
nice -- if someone from the media asks you a question please don't say "he
was such a careful pilot" -- and later if the circumstances strike a nerve
then please delve into the accident details and conclusions offered by the
professionals. And if seeing my mistake spares you, then I'll congradulate
you in Heaven.

It struck a nerve with me because two friends died in their float plane
this summer, a few weeks after one of them had allowed me to make some
take-offs and landings in that very same plane. I went to the memorials,
and we celebrated their lives of exhuberance and joy, and told the widows
how much we missed them and what great guys they both were. Then the
pilots stood around and said "how the hell did that happen"? Those
thoughts aren't to be shared with outsiders, but I think it's something we
need to do, for ourselves and for others.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
Is it so difficult to master your bloody pride and admit that yes, a bunch
of hackers turned out a better suite of utilities than your teams of
engineers ever could? -- Robert Uhl

I went to the memorials,
and we celebrated their lives of exhuberance and joy, and told the widows
how much we missed them and what great guys they both were. Then the
pilots stood around and said "how the hell did that happen"? Those
thoughts aren't to be shared with outsiders, but I think it's something we
need to do, for ourselves and for others.

I've had the misfortune of attending two memorials for lost pilot
friends during 2007. One was for a middle-aged couple who died
together, leaving only grieving, elderly parents and friends, while
the other was for a young father of two little kids, and an infant.

The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing something
they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no dependents, so their
fate was truly their own. Although death came to them too soon, it
seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to so many alternatives.

At the latter memorial, NO ONE said those words, as they would have
sounded cold and empty to the young widow and orphans. The horror of
the situation, the stark loss for the family, and the finality of the
event weighed heavily on all of us, and all we could think of --
silently -- was "What the hell happened?"

The manner of ones death matters mostly to the victim. For the
survivors, timing is everything.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck wrote:
The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing something
they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no dependents, so their
fate was truly their own. Although death came to them too soon, it
seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to so many alternatives.

Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The woman
was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted that she
died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the time -- being a
young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that statement at all. It
sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older and a pilot myself, I
understand it.

I don't find it wrong or offensive to say that when a person dies doing
something they love. IMO, it shouldn't be interpreted to mean that they
*chose* to go that way or that it's okay with you that you lost them
because they were doing something they loved. But as you said, compared
to some of the alternatives, going while doing something you love may be
of *some* comfort to *some* survivors.

But I agree with you--the perspective from the victim's viewpoint vs.
from the survivor's viewpoint may be very different. What/Who they leave
behind, and in what situations, can make it easier or harder to relate
to those statements...and there are a gazillion of them, made after a
death, that rub people the wrong way even though not meant to. I always
cringe when you inform someone of a death and they ask, "How old was
he/she?" ... as if it's *less* of a loss to loved ones if the person was
65 vs. 45.

Shirl wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
:

Jay Honeck wrote:
The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing something
they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no dependents, so their
fate was truly their own. Although death came to them too soon, it
seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to so many alternatives.

Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The woman
was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted that she
died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the time -- being a
young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that statement at all. It
sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older and a pilot myself, I
understand it.

I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..





Bertie

and the husband said he was comforted that she
died doing something she loved.

A quibble wit the subject line: It shouldn't be "If I die", but "=when=
I die".

Apropos of that, I'd like people to recall not that "at least he =died=
doing something he loved", rather "at least he =did= something he loved".

Actually, I'd rather hear "look, he's moving!".

And not have that followed by "shoot him again!"

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

There is something ignoble about the sense of gravitas and authority that
people assume with these things.
Its like the NASCAR crowd (the smallest component) that want something
dramatic to happen to fill some kind of Walter-Mitty void in their lives.
Some of the skydiving crowd really gave me the creeps in this regard.


?!? .......Although most incidents in skydiving usually get a transparent,
clinical examination, most jumpers I know just want to have some fun. Just
about all the facts that are learned are laid out for all to see and
evaluate in terms of their own experiences. Any discovered issues concerning
equipment are usually swiftly and openly discussed and addressed by
manufacturers and riggers......just as judgemental or procedural errors on
the part of the involved jumper(s) are also examined in depth. Usually an
unbroken chain of events leading to a fatality can be derived with
reasonable certainty. I certainly don't know any jumpers who just sit around
and dream of ways to put themselves in risky situations just for the
imagined thrill of it. That is not the same as pushing the envelope in an
informed, experimental way to gain knowledge and to go forward with
technology........even if it's in the name of "fun". Good examples are the
recent youtube videos of the wingsuit jumpers or the guy with the jets and
folding wings. I'm sure that data gained from these "stunts" will reappear
in the future in ways that we haven't imagined yet. Just as the relative
safety that the sport enjoys today was paid for by innovation, good or bad,
and by the deaths of people who were just having fun......not pretending to
be some sort of James Bond. I really mean that most skydivers really do take
the risks very seriously and are intimately knowledgable about their
equipment and limitations..............but we're not doing it to scare
ourselves.. we do it because it's a hoot!

Blue Skies! Black Death!.........NO, scrap that! I'll go with.........Blue
Skies! Black Crotchless Underwear!!.

TP

Paul Tomblin wrote:
My brother recently lost a friend of his in a diving accident. And my
brother, as a former sailor on the wreck that the accident happened on
(HMCS Cape Breton), a local PADI dive instructor and an expert in deep
diving techniques, had to go in to find the body after the RCMP tried
for two days and couldn't find him. I was reading the forum posts
about the accident, and somebody posted this. With a few
substitutions, I could see this applying to us just as well.


Excellent idea that we all should think about duplicating.

One thing I thought about after the Challenger exploded and the space
program was shutdown for years was if I had been an astronaut my wife would
have a tape to release to the media with a speech saying, in a nut shell, "I
knew this was dangerous and thought it was worth the risk. Please don't let
my death be used as an excuse to cease or even slow man's exploration of
space."