dogfight

wrote:
On Dec 15, 8:54 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote:
A buddy of mine recorded some History Channel show and I watched it.
The show was "Dogfight", and this episode was on P-51s fighting
ME109s, FW190, ME262s, and some Japanese planes.
In one recreation, a P51 pilot has an unusual ME109 chasing him. The
plane is actually out performing his P51 -- that wasn't usual with
109s. I don't remember exactly how long the ME109 was on him, but it
was about to be able to lead him just enough to take him out
(according to the P51 pilot, and, how he knew that I don't know). I
liked that they actually interviewed the P51 pilots who described what
was going on.
Anyway all of the sudden the P51 pilot tries a trick: he pulls the
stick back hard against his gut, at the same time jams hard bottom
rudder, the 51 spins out, sort of flat, and as it swings around the
pilot hit the fire button and laid out a stream of .50 caliber through
which the German flew and was knocked out.
I want to learn how to do that trick!
It's a pretty cool show, amazing CGI recreations. I slow motioned the
maneuver -- all the control surfaces looked right at each stage.
Snap Roll. Isn't the best idea in the 51 but doable if you get the speed
down below corner. Depending on the GW; down around 250 maximum. It will
snap before it loads all the way up to max structural g which is
mandatory unless you want to leave the wings and the fuselage as 3
separate parts in the sky.

Bertie's right. The show models are good but not totally realistic. I've
seen some slew moves on the program that you would really need vectored
thrust to perform.

As to the 109 out performing the 51. The 109 in skilled hands was a
deadly opponent at low to medium altitudes. It really boils down to what
I like to call "The difference between the cockpits", or how good one
pilot is vs how bad the other one might be.

--
Dudley Henriques

I don't know if there were any higher performance versions of the
ME-109, but the TA-152 could outperform the Mustang. It was a souped
up version of the FW-190.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_152


The 51 was a fine airplane, and it worked well at all altitudes but it
was nearing the end of its run at the end of the war.
I loved the airplane and flew it often but for me, flying the F8F
Bearcat one sunny afternoon in December, redefined the meaning of the
term "prop fighter performance".
In my opinion, if the war had lingered on and the Bear had been mass
produced for both theaters, the F8F would have not seen its match anywhere.
Just my opinion though. I'm not all that sure Kurt Tank might have
agreed :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

wrote in
:

On Dec 15, 11:27 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

C J Campbell wrote:
On 2007-12-15 19:54:18 -0800, Dudley Henriques
said:

It is the same thing that the airlines are doing today:
cannibalizing all the instructors and worrying later about where
the next generation of pilots is going to come from. You wonder
if the airlines will reach the point where Germany was, trying to
win the war, so to speak, with just one pilot.
The airline situation is going to the dogs. It's actually getting
to the point now between the airlines, the FAA, and ATC, that I
really don't want my family to fly any more.

There's a couple I definitely wouldn't let my family on, though I
sometimes have to position on them, I really don't like it.

Bertie

Yeah, it's getting a bit hairy out here with some of the carriers.
Of course the government will solve everything with this new
"passengers Bill of Rights" thing they just pushed through. :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

1. You have the right to be strip searched.
2. You have the right to be delayed for hours as little old ladies
are wanded by the TSA.
3. You have the right to drink a fifth of Vodka that you can't carry
on the plane.
4. You have the right to take off your shoes and put them through the
X-Ray machine (odor eaters are discouraged)
5. You have the right to feel like a criminal if you forget to take
you cell phone out before going through the metal detector.
6. You have the right to be "on time" an hour later than you were
scheduled to be.
I'm sure I'm missing a few here...


I believe he's talking about the ever declining standards in pilot
training and the ever increasing irresposibility of management.
This is not true of all airlines, but suffice it to say, you get what
you pay for..


Bertie

wrote in news:4a4b3843-18c7-4881-b8b8-
:



I don't know if there were any higher performance versions of the
ME-109,


There were. there were long wing variants built later in the war
specificially for high altitude ops.

but the TA-152 could outperform the Mustang. It was a souped
up version of the FW-190.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_152


Well, the figures don't tell the whole story. while speed and rate of
clinmb certainly would have given an advantage, as a package, though,
it's much harder to define what makes one airplane superior to
another.Performance can be a lot more than numbers at the end of the
day...


For instance, there was a loonie Swedish count in the 1960s who
symathised with the Biafrans in their war of secession from Nigeria (
the short story here is that oil was discovered in Biafra and they
diecided to take the money and run, having been a seperate nation inthe
first place, only paired up with the rest of Nigeria by arbitrary
colonialist redefintion of nations)
Anyhoo. this guy and some of his buds gathered up the best airplanes
available to the, the Bolkow Junior, manufactured in Sweden as the Malmö
a midget little box of a thing with a Cont A75 in the nose,put some hard
points on it and off to Biafra they went. They proceeded to decimate the
Nigerian Air Force, which at that time had the very latest Russian
stuff, Mig 21s, 17s, etc by flying at treetop level to their bases and
launching their little match head missiles at them while they were still
on the grond. they'd then race back to their own lines at treetop level
at 75 knots and any Migs that got airborne found it impossible to get a
bead on them.
Eventaully, all of these mercenaries were killed (IIRC, there were
another half dozen airplanes and pilots brought it over time, also lost)
but the damage they inflicted on the vastly superior forces of the other
side were astonishing.
Just as well the NAF didn't have 150s, eh?

OK, this is an odd example, but it goes to show in a bizarre kind of way
that numbers in a performance column don't tell the whole story.


Bertie

Dudley Henriques wrote in
:

wrote:
On Dec 15, 8:54 pm, Dudley Henriques wrote:
wrote:
A buddy of mine recorded some History Channel show and I watched
it. The show was "Dogfight", and this episode was on P-51s fighting
ME109s, FW190, ME262s, and some Japanese planes.
In one recreation, a P51 pilot has an unusual ME109 chasing him.
The plane is actually out performing his P51 -- that wasn't usual
with 109s. I don't remember exactly how long the ME109 was on him,
but it was about to be able to lead him just enough to take him out
(according to the P51 pilot, and, how he knew that I don't know). I
liked that they actually interviewed the P51 pilots who described
what was going on.
Anyway all of the sudden the P51 pilot tries a trick: he pulls the
stick back hard against his gut, at the same time jams hard bottom
rudder, the 51 spins out, sort of flat, and as it swings around the
pilot hit the fire button and laid out a stream of .50 caliber
through which the German flew and was knocked out.
I want to learn how to do that trick!
It's a pretty cool show, amazing CGI recreations. I slow motioned
the maneuver -- all the control surfaces looked right at each
stage.
Snap Roll. Isn't the best idea in the 51 but doable if you get the
speed down below corner. Depending on the GW; down around 250
maximum. It will snap before it loads all the way up to max
structural g which is mandatory unless you want to leave the wings
and the fuselage as 3 separate parts in the sky.

Bertie's right. The show models are good but not totally realistic.
I've seen some slew moves on the program that you would really need
vectored thrust to perform.

As to the 109 out performing the 51. The 109 in skilled hands was a
deadly opponent at low to medium altitudes. It really boils down to
what I like to call "The difference between the cockpits", or how
good one pilot is vs how bad the other one might be.

--
Dudley Henriques

I don't know if there were any higher performance versions of the
ME-109, but the TA-152 could outperform the Mustang. It was a souped
up version of the FW-190.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focke-Wulf_Ta_152


The 51 was a fine airplane, and it worked well at all altitudes but it
was nearing the end of its run at the end of the war.
I loved the airplane and flew it often but for me, flying the F8F
Bearcat one sunny afternoon in December, redefined the meaning of the
term "prop fighter performance".
In my opinion, if the war had lingered on and the Bear had been mass
produced for both theaters, the F8F would have not seen its match
anywhere. Just my opinion though. I'm not all that sure Kurt Tank
might have agreed :-))

I loveth elook of the Bearca, but for me, the FW 190 has to share the
best looking fighter of the war along with the Zero..

Bertie.

On Dec 15, 9:49 pm, C J Campbell
wrote:

It is the same thing that the airlines are doing today: cannibalizing
all the instructors and worrying later about where the next generation
of pilots is going to come from. You wonder if the airlines will reach
the point where Germany was, trying to win the war, so to speak, with
just one pilot.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor- Hide quoted text -

What draws you to this conclusion ?
Do you fly at a regonal ?
FB

Bertie the Bunyip wrote in news:Xns9A089F62B1341****upropeeh@
207.14.116.130:


Here's a pic of the Junior/Malmo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:B...d-edna.arp.jpg

I couldn't find any site with the whole story of this troup of adventurers
and it's years since I read the story, so my account mightn't be 100%..

Bertie

In a previous article, Bertie the Bunyip said:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
The airline situation is going to the dogs. It's actually getting to
the point now between the airlines, the FAA, and ATC, that I really
don't want my family to fly any more.


There's a couple I definitely wouldn't let my family on, though I sometimes
have to position on them, I really don't like it.


Can you name them? My wife and I were looking at Alaska cruises this
year, and the longer ones all seem to require you to fly on Alaska
Airlines at some point. I don't know about you, but I get the impression
that they didn't learn their lesson about shoddy maintenance after the
MD-80 jack screw crash, so I'm real reluctant to fly on them.


--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
"I had to kill him -- he was starting to make sense."

On Dec 16, 10:03 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote in news:Xns9A089F62B1341****upropeeh@
207.14.116.130:

Here's a pic of the Junior/Malmohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bolkow.junior.d-edna.arp.jpg

I couldn't find any site with the whole story of this troup of adventurers
and it's years since I read the story, so my account mightn't be 100%..

Bertie

Now that's airpower!

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in
:

In a previous article, Bertie the Bunyip said:
Dudley Henriques wrote in
:
The airline situation is going to the dogs. It's actually getting to
the point now between the airlines, the FAA, and ATC, that I really
don't want my family to fly any more.


There's a couple I definitely wouldn't let my family on, though I
sometimes have to position on them, I really don't like it.


Can you name them? My wife and I were looking at Alaska cruises this
year, and the longer ones all seem to require you to fly on Alaska
Airlines at some point. I don't know about you, but I get the
impression that they didn't learn their lesson about shoddy
maintenance after the MD-80 jack screw crash, so I'm real reluctant to
fly on them.



Don't know about them, but one of the larger bargain basement airlines
would be the one that sprang to mind first.. Think over-runs
That jackscrew accident was a bit of a wakeup for the whole industry
though. I know we looked at out lube schedules and found them wanting
afterwards.


Bertie

wrote in
:

On Dec 16, 10:03 am, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
Bertie the Bunyip wrote in
news:Xns9A089F62B1341****upropeeh@ 207.14.116.130:

Here's a pic of the
Junior/Malmohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bolkow.junior.d-edna.ar
p.jpg

I couldn't find any site with the whole story of this troup of
adventurers and it's years since I read the story, so my account
mightn't be 100%..

Bertie

Now that's airpower!


Yeah, it's a great Davey and Goliath story. Another would be the story of
Faith Hope and Charity.. Three old Gloster Gladiators on Malta. The Flying
Tigers were boxed in and outclassed in experience and equipment, but made
the most of what they had as well. History is full of these stories and it
always seems to be the guys who throw the rulebok out the window who
prevail..


Bertie