Spin to impact AOA

Colin Field wrote:


Balanced bank will always produce a turn, which can of course be seen as the
reference surface moving past the nose.


Thank you for expanding our opportunities for winter-time distraction.

Let us begin by asking, "What does the term 'balanced' mean in this context?



Jack

Colin Field wrote:


Balanced bank will always produce a turn, which can of course be seen as the
reference surface moving past the nose.


Thank you for expanding our opportunities for winter-time distraction.

Let us begin by asking, "What does the term 'balanced' mean in this context?





Jack

On Jan 14, 1:36*am, Ian wrote:
On 14 Jan, 01:19, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:

Does it matter? *If you can't detemine attitude, you can't control it.

Hmm. Philosophical question, maybe, but it's perfectly possible to
control attitude while only knowing airspeed, as my friends who fly in
cloud using ASI and T&S do ...

Ian

Hmm, no - you have to have more than just airspeed, you also need some
turn rate information - the T&S, as you mention - or better yet an
artificial horizon.

Trying to maintain attitude in a cloud without any gyro instrument (or
a fancy compass like a Bohli) is a sure way to end up in a classic
graveyard spiral.

But in the context of this thread - AOA isn't going to help with
attitude - any more than airspeed does - when there isn't any outside
reference. OTOH, as others have stated, if you can see anything
distinct outside, it is relatively easy to adjust airspeed. Ridge
flying is another situation where the horizon cannot be used without
constant adjustment to obtain the desired airspeed.

Another situation that can sneak up on a glider pilot is flying into
the sun, late in the day, on a very hazy/smoggy day. I've had
westbound final glides out here in Illinois where there was
absoulutely no visible horizon heading west, but good references when
heading down sun, with the result that airspeed control during
thermalling became a bit of a challenge (due to the gradual losing of
the horizon during the turn). One technique I've used while heading
towards the sun was to actually use the sun position on the canopy to
hold my bank angle, watching the GPS for track changes. Awkward, but
it will get you home. A bit tense, though, as you are effectively
IMC!

Kirk
66

At 05:36 14 January 2008, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Nope! We're not after an attitude indicator; we are
talking about a relative wind indicator.

We could call it something catchy, like an 'artificial
horizon'! Well,
maybe that's a simple way to get an attitude indicator
that's
commercially available for a $1000 or so, solid state
so power
consumption is low, and easily installed. It might
indicate the AOA
accurately enough in steady flight for performance
optimizing. Anyone
tried it?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change 'netto' to 'net' to email me directly
* 'Transponders in Sailplanes' http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* 'A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation' at
www.motorglider.org

On 14 Jan, 14:39, "kirk.stant" wrote:

Trying to maintain attitude in a cloud without any gyro instrument (or
a fancy compass like a Bohli) is a sure way to end up in a classic
graveyard spiral.

It's interesting that WW1 pilots used to fly blind in cloud regularly.
They also used to fly up to 20,000' and occasionally higher without
oxygen. It's amazing what you can do when you don;t know it's
impossible!

Ian

On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:34:02 -0800 (PST), Ian
wrote:


It's interesting that WW1 pilots used to fly blind in cloud regularly.
They also used to fly up to 20,000' and occasionally higher without
oxygen. It's amazing what you can do when you don;t know it's
impossible!

Indeed.
But please check the average lifespan of a WW1 pilot.

Google for "ww1 pilot lifespan".

The results on the first page only mention life spans of 15.5 flying
hours, three weeks, and a loss rate of 77 percent of the French
pilots.

Maybe the things you mentioned played a role?





Bye
Andreas

It's interesting that WW1 pilots used to fly blind in cloud regularly.
They also used to fly up to 20,000' and occasionally higher without
oxygen. It's amazing what you can do when you don;t know it's
impossible!

Ian

Huh? Cite please. High altitude yes - climbers do it all the time -
but it is physiologically impossible to fly safe IMC (without external
ground references) without some sort of accurate turn instrument.
Until the advent of the gyro T&B, cloud flying was a practical
impossibility. It it possible to use a compass like a Bohli to
substitute for a gyro in a glider - but there were'nt many of those
around in WW1.

If you think you can cloud fly using only airspeed, then make sure
your glider has terminal velocity dive brakes - you'll need them!

Or maybe they used the Cat and Dog method...

Kirk

OK, I'll bite - the Cat and Dog method? Wazzat?

-John

On Jan 14, 4:30 pm, "kirk.stant" wrote:
If you think you can cloud fly using only airspeed, then make sure
your glider has terminal velocity dive brakes - you'll need them!

Or maybe they used the Cat and Dog method...

kirk.stant Wrote:

Until the advent of the gyro T&B, cloud flying was a practical
impossibility.

Luckily, Max Kegel didn't know this. The early (very early) glider
pilots did fly in clouds on a regular basis without gyros. But their
gliders were much draggier than ours are and, as these pilots themselves
admitted later, they were very lucky to survive this experiment. They
just didn't know better.

With today's slippery gliders, don't even think about it.

On 14 Jan, 17:51, Andreas Maurer wrote:

The results on the first page only mention life spans of 15.5 flying
hours, three weeks, and a loss rate of 77 percent of the French
pilots.

Maybe the things you mentioned played a role?

Maybe. There were some other distractions around at the time, I
gather.

Cue cheap "the fokkers are shooting me" joke.

Ian