Water in the fuel

In the Ag world they never park up with anything but full tanks.
And -they- still check for water.
better to never find it than it is for the engine to find it

On Mar 15, 10:37 pm, george wrote:
In the Ag world they never park up with anything but full tanks.
And -they- still check for water.
better to never find it than it is for the engine to find it

No kidding. Not much gliding distance to futz around with switching
tanks or whatever fuel troubleshooting when your normal flying regime
is typically in or just slightly above ground effect.

On Mar 15, 3:15*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
William Hung wrote in news:ed9d1365-dc16-4b4e-9941-
:

On Mar 15, 3:56*am, Ron Garret wrote:
It occurred to me today that in fifteen years of flying I have never
once found water in my fuel when I've drained my tanks. *Not a drop. *

Ever. *Am I just lucky, or is this really as rare an occurrence as it
seems to be? *(I fly in SoCal. *Maybe that has something to do with it
.)

rg

I've never come across any either, but my experience is limited.

How do the big boys check for water, the Boeings and the Busses?

Same way, but less frequently. Much less frequently.

Bertie

Considering the "air space" available in their tanks, one would think
that condensation would be a problem. I don't remember ever seeing
gascolators on the big ones. Where are they at?

Wil

William Hung wrote in news:c180217b-4f15-406d-862a-
:

On Mar 15, 3:15*pm, Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
William Hung wrote in news:ed9d1365-dc16-4b4e-
9941-
:

On Mar 15, 3:56*am, Ron Garret wrote:
It occurred to me today that in fifteen years of flying I have
never
once found water in my fuel when I've drained my tanks. *Not a
drop.
*

Ever. *Am I just lucky, or is this really as rare an occurrence as
it

seems to be? *(I fly in SoCal. *Maybe that has something to do
with
it
.)

rg

I've never come across any either, but my experience is limited.

How do the big boys check for water, the Boeings and the Busses?

Same way, but less frequently. Much less frequently.

Bertie

Considering the "air space" available in their tanks, one would think
that condensation would be a problem. I don't remember ever seeing
gascolators on the big ones. Where are they at?

In the wing roots foro the wing tanks and underneath the fuselage for
the center, but we never check them ourselves. In fact I don't know how
often they do get checked, but I do know it isn't often. I'll ask the
guys next time I go out.


Bertie

"William Hung" wrote

I've never come across any either, but my experience is limited.

How do the big boys check for water, the Boeings and the Busses?

William, the big difference here, is the fact that jet fuel, kerosene and
diesel fuel all have the ability to absorb moisture right out of the air,
and to dissolve the water in the fuel with no line of separation, like
happens with gas and water.

Right off hand, I would guess that there would be a point where it could no
longer absorb it all but I don't know for sure, right or wrong.
--
Jim in NC

On Mar 18, 11:34*pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"WilliamHung" wrote

I've never come across any either, but my experience is limited.
How do the big boys check for water, the Boeings and the Busses?

William, the big difference here, is the fact that jet fuel, kerosene and
diesel fuel all have the ability to absorb moisture right out of the air,
and to dissolve the water in the fuel with no line of separation, like
happens with gas and water.

Right off hand, I would guess that there would be a point where it could no
longer absorb it all but I don't know for sure, right or wrong.
--
Jim in NC

Thanks Jim. Makes sense.

Wil

On Mar 15, 2:56 am, Ron Garret wrote:
It occurred to me today that in fifteen years of flying I have never
once found water in my fuel when I've drained my tanks. Not a drop.
Ever. Am I just lucky, or is this really as rare an occurrence as it
seems to be? (I fly in SoCal. Maybe that has something to do with it.)

rg

I've only had one serious occurrence of water contamination, right
after refueling at a little airport just northwest of San Antonio. I
generally always sump my tanks after refueling, especially at strange
airports, and this time I got about a full cup of ugly brown water out
of one tank and a half cup out of the other. I complained to the FBO
and they were were rude to me for having dared to complain about their
fuel. I've never been back to that airport ever again. Three guesses
which airport that was... hint there's only one immediately due
northwest of the city.

I have seen the occasional drop or two from condensation, and also
whenever I wash my airplane (lots of water from a garden hose over the
tops of the wings) I'll get a drop or two. I've never gotten any water
from flying thru rain.

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:56:30 -0700, Ron Garret
wrote:

It occurred to me today that in fifteen years of flying I have never
once found water in my fuel when I've drained my tanks. Not a drop.
Ever. Am I just lucky, or is this really as rare an occurrence as it
seems to be? (I fly in SoCal. Maybe that has something to do with it.)

Wellll... From good old Michigan where we can easily see 30 degrees
change between night and day, day after day that can amount to a lot
of condensation. Keeping tanks full or nearly so seems to take care
of the problem but half full with the plane in a steel hangar with a
concrete floor usually means water in the thanks.

Stored indoors, if you can call an unheated steel hangar indoors (at
least it's out of the rain) particularly in the spring where the
humidity is usually very high and temperature swings can be 50 or more
degrees between day and night although 30 is typical (50 day, 30
night The next 10 days are showing mostly 40's in the day and teens
to 20s at night) I have taken over a pint out of 25 gallon tanks that
were about 1/4 full.

Outdoors is little different unless the cap seals are leaking which
does happen on Bonanza/Debonair caps. In that case they serve as great
substitutes for funnels and even full tanks get ...fuller:-)) The
gas gets displaced and the water collects.

I had to store the Deb outside while they were redoing the taxiways a
few years back. We had quite a bit of rain during that period and I
was getting one to two pints a day with full tanks. A quick trip to
the FBO took care of that. At least I know from that and flying in
torrential rain the window and door seals work well. :-))



rg
Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote:


Stored indoors, if you can call an unheated steel hangar indoors (at
least it's out of the rain) particularly in the spring where the
humidity is usually very high and temperature swings can be 50 or more
degrees between day and night although 30 is typical (50 day, 30
night The next 10 days are showing mostly 40's in the day and teens
to 20s at night) I have taken over a pint out of 25 gallon tanks that
were about 1/4 full.

Hmm... I don't understand this.

One cubic meter (about 264 gallons ) of saturated air at 32 degrees F.
contains about 5 to 6 grams of water vapor. The fact that the temperatures
were falling into the 20s indicates that the air had less moisture in it than
that. There couldn't have been even a gram of water in 17 gallons of air at
those temperatures.

Where was the water coming from?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

"Dan Luke" wrote in
:


"Roger" wrote:


Stored indoors, if you can call an unheated steel hangar indoors (at
least it's out of the rain) particularly in the spring where the
humidity is usually very high and temperature swings can be 50 or
more degrees between day and night although 30 is typical (50 day,
30 night The next 10 days are showing mostly 40's in the day and
teens to 20s at night) I have taken over a pint out of 25 gallon
tanks that were about 1/4 full.

Hmm... I don't understand this.

One cubic meter (about 264 gallons ) of saturated air at 32 degrees F.
contains about 5 to 6 grams of water vapor. The fact that the
temperatures were falling into the 20s indicates that the air had less
moisture in it than that. There couldn't have been even a gram of
water in 17 gallons of air at those temperatures.

Where was the water coming from?

It was probably suspended in the fuel.


Bertie