Getting confused with ATC order...Violation?

On Apr 3, 9:04 pm, Larry Dighera wrote:

As I recall, several years ago the FAA changed their policy, and
removed the controller from culpability in the event the pilot's
read-back was incorrect.


There was no change in policy.

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 08:38:52 -0700 (PDT), "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:

On Apr 3, 9:04 pm, Larry Dighera wrote:

As I recall, several years ago the FAA changed their policy, and
removed the controller from culpability in the event the pilot's
read-back was incorrect.


There was no change in policy.

So it seems. The FAA issued an interpretive rule:

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulat...retiverule.pdf
Federal Register / Vol. 64, No. 62 / Thursday, April 1, 1999
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Federal Aviation Administration
14 CFR Part 91
Pilot Responsibility for Compliance With Air Traffic Control
Clearances and Instructions

SUMMARY: Pilots operating in areas in
which air traffic control is exercised are
required by regulation to comply with
the clearances and instructions of air
traffic controllers except in very narrow
circumstances. The FAA has
consistently construed and enforced this
requirement as ascribing to pilots a high
level of responsibility to monitor air
traffic control communications
attentively. Under normal
circumstances, the FAA has expected
pilots to understand and to comply with
clearly transmitted and reasonably
phrased clearances and instructions that
govern their operations. Nevertheless, a
series of recent National Transportation
Safety Board (NTSB) enforcement
decisions has raised a question
regarding the regulatory responsibility
of pilots to hear and to comply with air
traffic control clearances and
instructions. This interpretive rule
confirms the FAA’s historical
construction of its regulations that
require compliance with air traffic
control clearances and instructions.

Larry Dighera writes:

So it seems. The FAA issued an interpretive rule:

http://www.aopa.org/whatsnew/regulat...retiverule.pdf
Federal Register / Vol. 64, No. 62 / Thursday, April 1, 1999
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Federal Aviation Administration
14 CFR Part 91
Pilot Responsibility for Compliance With Air Traffic Control
Clearances and Instructions

SUMMARY: Pilots operating in areas in
which air traffic control is exercised are
required by regulation to comply with
the clearances and instructions of air
traffic controllers except in very narrow
circumstances. The FAA has
consistently construed and enforced this
requirement as ascribing to pilots a high
level of responsibility to monitor air
traffic control communications
attentively. Under normal
circumstances, the FAA has expected
pilots to understand and to comply with
clearly transmitted and reasonably
phrased clearances and instructions that
govern their operations. Nevertheless, a
series of recent National Transportation
Safety Board (NTSB) enforcement
decisions has raised a question
regarding the regulatory responsibility
of pilots to hear and to comply with air
traffic control clearances and
instructions. This interpretive rule
confirms the FAA’s historical
construction of its regulations that
require compliance with air traffic
control clearances and instructions.

That just reasserts the need for pilots to obey ATC (exclusive of emergencies,
which is not stated here but is in the regulations). However, it doesn't say
anything about readback. If the pilot reads back instructions, and the
readback is incorrect, and ATC says nothing, how is the pilot to possibly know
that he is doing the wrong thing? Simple noise on the radio could cause him
to hear something incorrectly, no matter how "attentive" he might be.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
RubberWatch writes:

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading.

Did you read back the heading? If you read back 110 and he said nothing,
you're okay, since he should have corrected you.

Bull****, he's okay anyway.

STFU, you're wrong as usual.

Maxwell writes:

Bull****, he's okay anyway.

He's more okay with a readback. Readbacks are good.

On 2008-04-03 19:11:38 -0700, "Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net said:


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
RubberWatch writes:

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading.

Did you read back the heading? If you read back 110 and he said nothing,
you're okay, since he should have corrected you.

Bull****, he's okay anyway.

STFU, you're wrong as usual.

Anthony forgets that people don't die in simulators.

They do die in real airplanes, though, and the FAA has held that a
pilot who reads back an erroneous clearance is still required to fly
the one given him by ATC, even if ATC doesn't correct him. But even if
Anthony was correct from a legal standpoint, flying a misunderstood
heading can easily kill you. Then it doesn't matter who was right --
you are the one who is dead.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:2008040405554543658-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
On 2008-04-03 19:11:38 -0700, "Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net said:


"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
RubberWatch writes:

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading.

Did you read back the heading? If you read back 110 and he said
nothing,
you're okay, since he should have corrected you.

Bull****, he's okay anyway.

STFU, you're wrong as usual.

Anthony forgets that people don't die in simulators.

They do die in real airplanes, though, and the FAA has held that a pilot
who reads back an erroneous clearance is still required to fly the one
given him by ATC, even if ATC doesn't correct him. But even if Anthony was
correct from a legal standpoint, flying a misunderstood heading can easily
kill you. Then it doesn't matter who was right --
you are the one who is dead.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor


Difference between ATC and pilot.
When a pilot makes a mistake the pilot dies.
When ATC makes a mistake the pilot dies.

Happy landings,

Private wrote:
"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:2008040405554543658-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
On 2008-04-03 19:11:38 -0700, "Maxwell" luv2^fly99@cox.^net said:

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
RubberWatch writes:

I am a student pilot. I was out flying solo today and was instructed
by ATC to fly a heading of 210. I thought he said 110 and I flew on
that heading.
Did you read back the heading? If you read back 110 and he said
nothing,
you're okay, since he should have corrected you.
Bull****, he's okay anyway.

STFU, you're wrong as usual.
Anthony forgets that people don't die in simulators.

They do die in real airplanes, though, and the FAA has held that a pilot
who reads back an erroneous clearance is still required to fly the one
given him by ATC, even if ATC doesn't correct him. But even if Anthony was
correct from a legal standpoint, flying a misunderstood heading can easily
kill you. Then it doesn't matter who was right --
you are the one who is dead.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor


Difference between ATC and pilot.
When a pilot makes a mistake the pilot dies.
When ATC makes a mistake the pilot dies.

Happy landings,



.........and this is a VERY good reason for pilots NEVER get into a
"who's right and who's wrong with ATC mental attitude, but rather to do
everything in their power to keep communication with ATC simple,
accurate, and above all, HELPFUL to ATC in aiding them in protecting the
pilot's safety.

--
Dudley Henriques

Again...thanks everyone for your helpful advice....i just keep
laughing at the snide snips and jokes about simulators and differences
between atc and pilots...

"Private" wrote in message
...

Difference between ATC and pilot.
When a pilot makes a mistake the pilot dies.
When ATC makes a mistake the pilot dies.

Happy landings,



Excepting ATC Peter Nielsen who was murdered for his mistake...