Commanche alternatives?

In article ,
(robert arndt) wrote:

The days of the attack helo are numbered. The US Army is going with
the Hunter and Raven UAVs plus future UCAVs.

Not surprising since UCAVs can do a better job,

Well, in theory, and for some missions, anyway. But you have a couple
of potential problems with that. If they're completely autonomous,
they're not going to be as "smart" as humans when it comes to targeting
and new situations. If they're remotely-controlled, there's the whole
issue of jamming and/or lost communications.

are cheaper, unmanned,

"Cheap" is only good when it's "as good." Generally, they're going to
be as good for a lot of missions, and will be better for some others,
but there's going to be a need for on-site human pilots until we can
figure out how to make *really* smart portable robots.

and can (in the future) carry " Swarmers"- KKVs (Kinetic Kill
Vehicles) that attack everything like exploding locusts.

....which could be carried by any vehicle, manned or not.

I'm strongly in favor of an expanded UCAV force, but we've got a long
way to go before they're going to be a real replacement for attack
planes and helos.

And I'm betting that some of the first "real" attack UCAV helos will be
based off of lessons we've leanrd on the Comanche. Yank out the
human-carrying parts of the Comanche, leave off the more sophisticated
systems, scale the airframe down by about 50%, and you'd have a heckuva
nice little attack robot for a fraction of the cost.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
m...
And I'm betting that some of the first "real" attack UCAV helos will be
based off of lessons we've leanrd on the Comanche. Yank out the
human-carrying parts of the Comanche, leave off the more sophisticated
systems, scale the airframe down by about 50%, and you'd have a heckuva
nice little attack robot for a fraction of the cost.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that a "black" program to develop a UCAV
helicopter that incorporates a lot of the what was learned on the RAH-66
program is probably in an advanced development stage already. A stealthy
UCAV helicopter with RCS a small fraction of what the RAH-66 already
achieved and very low noise levels could be perfect for taking on al-Qaeda
or other terrorist organizations in their operational areas at night.

--
Raymond Chuang
Sacramento, CA USA

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:04:27 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

Well, in theory, and for some missions, anyway. But you have a couple
of potential problems with that. If they're completely autonomous,
they're not going to be as "smart" as humans when it comes to targeting

How the hell is gonna tell friendly from enemy? Civilian from
combatant? The only thing it'll be good for is knocking out armor.
Attack helos still present a flexibility and presence that you can't
get out of a glorified model airplane kit.

"Rune Børsjø" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:04:27 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

Well, in theory, and for some missions, anyway. But you have a couple
of potential problems with that. If they're completely autonomous,
they're not going to be as "smart" as humans when it comes to targeting

How the hell is gonna tell friendly from enemy? Civilian from
combatant? The only thing it'll be good for is knocking out armor.
Attack helos still present a flexibility and presence that you can't
get out of a glorified model airplane kit.

You havent heard of IFF I take it

Keith

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 20:52:00 -0000, "Keith Willshaw"
wrote:

You havent heard of IFF I take it

Lot of good it's gonna do you in an urban or even sparsely populated
scenario? If they're really going to replace helos it's going to have
to come down to AI or somebody sitting far, far away looking through a
videocamera... are you willing to entrust your life to a simple
computer program, or a stickjock computernerd, sitting thousands of
miles away in a trailer, eating pizza, drinking zima, and blowing up
everything in sight in the hopes of achieving a highscore?

I'm not...

In article ,
"Keith Willshaw" wrote:

"Rune Børsjø" wrote in message
...
How the hell is gonna tell friendly from enemy? Civilian from
combatant? The only thing it'll be good for is knocking out armor.
Attack helos still present a flexibility and presence that you can't
get out of a glorified model airplane kit.

You havent heard of IFF I take it

You mean like the IFF that fails from time to time, or that can be
spoofed and jammed quite easily?

You have some of the following problems:

IFF jammed, UCAV won't shoot.
IFF jammed, UCAV shoots down anything in front of it.
IFF spoofed, UCAV hunts down friendly targets.

IFF is easy enough, but "robust" IFF is a real pain.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"Rune Børsjø" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 19:04:27 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

Well, in theory, and for some missions, anyway. But you have a couple
of potential problems with that. If they're completely autonomous,
they're not going to be as "smart" as humans when it comes to targeting

How the hell is gonna tell friendly from enemy? Civilian from
combatant? The only thing it'll be good for is knocking out armor.
Attack helos still present a flexibility and presence that you can't
get out of a glorified model airplane kit.

You havent heard of IFF I take it

Not a reliable, discrete (not desirable to tell *everyone* "here I am!", is
it?), and *operational* one for ground units I haven't. Your nominee to fill
those requirements would be...?

Brooks


Keith

Perhaps new technology - about which we know nothing - has already been used
to develop replacements for both the Apache and Comanche ....

Jack



"John Cook" wrote in message
...
What will the US use?

There is obviously a operational need for an attack helicopter.

How about licensed production of the Tigre!!

I can't imaging the Apache being current in a very few years, not
without major upgrades...

Cheers

On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:51:37 +1100, John Cook
wrote:

How about licensed production of the Tigre!!

Yeah, because as we all know, it ain't good enough if it ain't built
in the states :-p

Anywho, is it my imagination, or does the Tigre look like a cross
between an Apache and a Cobra? I bet the euros claimed no coincidence
there, right? :-)