How do weather services get sky conditions above the surface?

buttman writes:

As far as in-between could layers, its only reported by pireps. Its
very common to ask ATC what the cloud tops are and get a response "I
don't know, no one has given any pireps yet" No one hardly ever flies
VFR between cloud layers, because its too easy to get stuck, therefore
no one bothers making a chart for multiple cloud layers.

That hadn't occurred to me. If you're VFR you definitely wouldn't want to be
stuck between clouds, so the in-between layers aren't important. And if
you're IFR it doesn't matter ... unless the clouds are associated with icing
or severe turbulence.

On Jul 24, 2:24*am, buttman wrote:
On Jul 23, 7:37*am, Mxsmanic wrote:

It's easy enough to establish measurement stations on the surface to measure
wind, temperature, visibility, etc., but what is the normal way for
meteorologists to measure these things aloft? *Do they depend on PIREPs, or
expendable/recoverable probes and balloons, or satellites, or what?

Theres a little "eye" that looks up at the sky at various points. It
detects if there is cloud, or sky. The sensor is prone to errors,
though. Sometimes if it's broken, it'll say its overcast because some
of the sensors are pointing diagonally and are sensing the side of the
cloud. I had an ATC college-style text book that had a very
informative diagram of how they worked, but that book is long gone.


here is an example of one.

No imaging device there, just a couple of bolimeters.


Cheers

Mxsmanic wrote:
It's easy enough to establish measurement stations on the surface to measure
wind, temperature, visibility, etc., but what is the normal way for
meteorologists to measure these things aloft? Do they depend on PIREPs, or
expendable/recoverable probes and balloons, or satellites, or what?


Tongue firmly in cheek They charter a Bell 47 helicopter and take it
up in increments of 1000 feet where they hover for a few seconds. They
roll down the window and use the "finger method" to determine wind speed
and direction. At altitudes above 30,000 feet they use the frozen toe
method to determine winds aloft and temperatures.

Mxsmanic wrote:
It's easy enough to establish measurement stations on the surface to measure
wind, temperature, visibility, etc., but what is the normal way for
meteorologists to measure these things aloft? Do they depend on PIREPs, or
expendable/recoverable probes and balloons, or satellites, or what?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteorology

http://ww2010.atmos.uiuc.edu/(Gh)/gu...fcst/home.rxml

http://www.physics.uwo.ca/~whocking/p103/instrum.html


--
Jim Pennino

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On Jul 23, 8:37*am, Mxsmanic wrote:
It's easy enough to establish measurement stations on the surface to measure
wind, temperature, visibility, etc., but what is the normal way for
meteorologists to measure these things aloft? *Do they depend on PIREPs, or
expendable/recoverable probes and balloons, or satellites, or what?

Anthony, this may have already been suggested to you in the past.
Why don't you start taking flying lessons?
You will enjoy the real thing so much more than your simulator and you
will learn the answer to all these questions quickly.
The best & most economical way to learn is to enroll in a part 141
college with aviation or go the LSA or recreational pilot route.
That's how I did it when I was in my late 20s (college), and I got my
commercial/Instrument in 2 semesters. All I did was fly, I didn't take
any college academics.
We used a simulator extensively for instrument instruction, which I
found to be more challenging than the real airplane.
All kinds of financing is available, from federal grants & loans to
thousands of other financing options.
There really is little reason why one who wants to fly cannot learn.
You can do it...

Ricky

Ricky writes:

Anthony, this may have already been suggested to you in the past.
Why don't you start taking flying lessons?

No money, no time. I doubt that I could pass any of the exams as well.

You will enjoy the real thing so much more than your simulator and you
will learn the answer to all these questions quickly.

I doubt that this particular question would be answered in a piloting
curriculum.

I might enjoy it more; I might not. There are some distinct advantages to
simulation, such as the fact that I don't actually have to go anywhere just to
fly, and when I'm finished flying in a sim, I'm still right at home.

The best & most economical way to learn is to enroll in a part 141
college with aviation or go the LSA or recreational pilot route.

I can't afford any type of flying instruction, nor do I have enough free time
to dedicate to it. Simulation is orders of magnitude cheaper (making it
affordable for me), and requires only the time spent flying or (voluntarily)
studying.

We used a simulator extensively for instrument instruction, which I
found to be more challenging than the real airplane.

I've heard varying stories on which is more difficult, sim or real life.

All kinds of financing is available, from federal grants & loans to
thousands of other financing options.

I don't have any money to pay anything back.

There really is little reason why one who wants to fly cannot learn.
You can do it...

Not at this time. Perhaps at certain points in the past. Today I just don't
have the resources. But simulation isn't as bad as many people seem to think.

On Jul 23, 2:58 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Ricky writes:
Anthony, this may have already been suggested to you in the past.
Why don't you start taking flying lessons?

No money, no time. I doubt that I could pass any of the exams as well.


Not that it really matters, but I am sure you could pass the FAA
written; it is a very easy, multiple choice test. I think the study
guides may even have the actual questions that will be asked in them.
But you are right about the cost; it is pretty damned expensive.
FWIW, I think you would really dislike lessons anyway, as your
intellectual curiosity would not be satisfied, and very well may
irritate the hell out of your instructor (you can see the responses
you get here).

Rocky Stevens wrote in news:ca3c482c-f55a-40e9-
:

On Jul 23, 2:58 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
Ricky writes:
Anthony, this may have already been suggested to you in the past.
Why don't you start taking flying lessons?

No money, no time. I doubt that I could pass any of the exams as well.


Not that it really matters, but I am sure you could pass the FAA
written; it is a very easy, multiple choice test.


Except that he would create an extra column and tell the adjudicator that
all of the possible answers are incorrect, because he read different on
Google.


Bertie

Rocky Stevens writes:

Not that it really matters, but I am sure you could pass the FAA
written; it is a very easy, multiple choice test.

Maybe, but tests tend to stress me a lot and I don't do well on them. I hate
competition.

I think the study guides may even have the actual questions that
will be asked in them.

I have a little blue one that is pretty good that I've read through on many
occasions.

But you are right about the cost; it is pretty damned expensive.

Even more so in Europe. Here I've been told that the private pilot license
could cost up to $30,000, and an IFR rating would double that.

FWIW, I think you would really dislike lessons anyway, as your
intellectual curiosity would not be satisfied, and very well may
irritate the hell out of your instructor (you can see the responses
you get here).

That has always been a problem for me in such environments, although it
depends on the structure and the instructor. Instructors who are insecure or
incompetent enough to dislike questioning come to hate me very quickly. Those
who enjoy elaborating on all sorts of details find me a refreshing change from
many students (who often are only interesting in learning enough to pass an
exam).

Mxsmanic wrote:
Rocky Stevens writes:

Not that it really matters, but I am sure you could pass the FAA
written; it is a very easy, multiple choice test.

Maybe, but tests tend to stress me a lot and I don't do well on them. I hate
competition.

Since it is an impartial evaluation of your knowledge, I can see why
that might stress you.


--
Jim Pennino

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