Shot at/Shot back

From: Bob McKellar bob@coastco

I wondered
if we have had any other recent ( last 75 years or so )
presidents or major contenders who have killed somebody in a
personal and particular way.

Henry Kissinger's name was bandied about as a possible presidential candidate
at one time (and as with Arnold Swartzenegger, his fans hoped a constitutional
amendment would make it possible). During WW2, he served as a rifleman with
the 84th Infantry Division and fought at the Battle of the Bulge, where he had
plenty of opportunities to be shot at and shoot back. Seeing that he was Jewish
and his family fled Germany in 1938, he took killing Nazis personally.
A brief history of the 84th ID's exploits during the war can be found he

http://www.lonesentry.com/gi_stories.../84thinfantry/


Chris Mark

Chris Mark wrote:
From: Bob McKellar bob@coastco


I wondered
if we have had any other recent ( last 75 years or so )
presidents or major contenders who have killed somebody in a
personal and particular way.


Henry Kissinger's name was bandied about as a possible presidential candidate
at one time (and as with Arnold Swartzenegger, his fans hoped a constitutional
amendment would make it possible). During WW2, he served as a rifleman with
the 84th Infantry Division and fought at the Battle of the Bulge, where he had
plenty of opportunities to be shot at and shoot back. Seeing that he was Jewish
and his family fled Germany in 1938, he took killing Nazis personally.
A brief history of the 84th ID's exploits during the war can be found he

http://www.lonesentry.com/gi_stories.../84thinfantry/


Chris Mark

I thought that he was in Military Government, there being a story of him
becoming "military mayor" of the town his family was from.

Joe

Joe Osman wrote:
Chris Mark wrote:
From: Bob McKellar bob@coastco


I wondered
if we have had any other recent ( last 75 years or so )
presidents or major contenders who have killed somebody in a
personal and particular way.


Henry Kissinger's name was bandied about as a possible presidential candidate
at one time (and as with Arnold Swartzenegger, his fans hoped a
constitutional amendment would make it possible). During WW2, he served as
a rifleman with the 84th Infantry Division and fought at the Battle of the
Bulge, where he had plenty of opportunities to be shot at and shoot back.
Seeing that he was Jewish and his family fled Germany in 1938, he took
killing Nazis personally.
A brief history of the 84th ID's exploits during the war can be found he

http://www.lonesentry.com/gi_stories.../84thinfantry/


Chris Mark

I thought that he was in Military Government, there being a story of him
becoming "military mayor" of the town his family was from.

I extracted the following from one of his biographies that Google pointed me at:

"From 1943 to 1946 Dr. Kissinger served in the U.S. Army Counter-Intelligence
Corps and from 1946 to 1949 was a captain in the Military Intelligence Reserve."

George Z.

Joe

From: Joe Osman Josph.Osman@veriz

I thought that he was in Military Government, there being a story of him
becoming "military mayor" of the town his family was from.

Heinz Kissinger came of age in Nazi Germany, having been born in 1923, the
first child of a Jewish couple in Fürth, Germany. In 1938, the family
immigrated to American and settled in New York City. Kissinger was a student
at City College when he received his draft notice shortly after his nineteenth
birthday and, by February of 1943, he left for Infantry basic at Camp Croft. He
became a naturalized citizen in Spartanburg on March 19, 1943, along with 348
other Camp Croft soldiers, 131 of whom were also Germans. Despite being away
from his family, and outside of a German-Jewish community for the first time in
his life, Kissinger found South Carolina to be more of a "new world" than New
York had ever been, and he wrote that the experience was "exhilarating." He was
said to have been a solitary figure but performed well during basic training
and after completing basic in June 1943, he was sent to nearby Clemson
University where he qualified for the Army Specialized Training Program (ASTP)
and was sent to Lafayette College in Pennsylvania. When the program was
canceled in April of 1944, Kissinger found himself sent, along with 2,800 other
ASTP candidates, to Camp Claiborne, LA to join the 84th Infantry Division.
Assigned to Company G, 335th Infantry Regiment, Kissinger departed for Germany
in November 1944 and, as part of the Ninth Army, quickly pushed into Germany
only to be driven back into Belgium during the Battle of the Bulge. By March,
the company was back in Germany, arriving at Krefled where Kissinger, a PFC
with no security clearance but displaying other obvious qualities, became the
administrator of the city. Shortly afterwards, he was transferred to the
Counter-Intellegence branch, promoted to the rank of Sergeant, and served with
distinction in other important occupational duties. Demobilized in May 1946,
Kissinger worked for a time in Europe as an instructor at the European Command
Counter Intelligence School in Oberhammergau before returning to the US,
entering Harvard University under the G.I. bill.


Chris Mark

Subject: Shot at/Shot back
From: ost (Chris Mark)
Date: 3/6/04 10:01 AM Pacific Standard Time

By March,
the company was back in Germany, arriving at Krefled where Kissinger, a PFC
with no security clearance but displaying other obvious qualities, became the
administrator of the city.

And one of those qualities was total fluency in German, rare among US troops..


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

From:

displaying other obvious qualities, became the
administrator of the city.

And one of those qualities was total fluency in German, rare among US
troops..

At an AEI dinner recently, Ben Wattenberg asked Kissinger if, while reigning
with absolute authority over Krefled, including having the unquestioned power
of life and death, whether he was not tempted to mete out violent justice to
local Nazis, not only because he was a German Jew, but because he had just come
through some very hard combat in which many of his comrades died.
Kissinger acknowledged that, since he was operating under the harsh military
directive JCS 1067, not modified and softened until 1947, he certainly could
have done so, especially since its primary author, Harry Dexter White,
suggested that a list of war criminals based on Stalin's list of 50,000 be
prepared and sent to American soldiers in Germany, who could, after verifying
their identity, shoot any of them on sight.
However, Kissinger said he felt it was more important to show the Germans that
their conquerers were better than they, and did not stoop to barbarism. So,
although both the temptation and authority existed, he did not order any
executions or conduct any himself. Considering that Kissinger was 22 years old
at the time, that shows considerable maturity on his part.
White, a very large figure in postwar events, was, of course, later accused of
being a communist spy in cahoots with Stalin, dying "mysteriously" within a few
days of appearing before a congressional hearing into his activities.


Chris Mark

ost (Chris Mark) wrote in message ...
From: Joe Osman Josph.Osman@veriz

I thought that he was in Military Government, there being a story of him
becoming "military mayor" of the town his family was from.

Heinz Kissinger came of age in Nazi Germany, having been born in 1923, the
first child of a Jewish couple in Fürth, Germany. In 1938, the family
immigrated to American and settled in New York City. Kissinger was a student
at City College when he received his draft notice shortly after his nineteenth
birthday and, by February of 1943, he left for Infantry basic at Camp Croft. He
became a naturalized citizen in Spartanburg on March 19, 1943, along with 348
other Camp Croft soldiers, 131 of whom were also Germans. Despite being away
from his family, and outside of a German-Jewish community for the first time in
his life, Kissinger found South Carolina to be more of a "new world" than New
York had ever been, and he wrote that the experience was "exhilarating." He was
said to have been a solitary figure but performed well during basic training
and after completing basic in June 1943, he was sent to nearby Clemson
University where he qualified for the Army Specialized Training Program (ASTP)
and was sent to Lafayette College in Pennsylvania. When the program was
canceled in April of 1944, Kissinger found himself sent, along with 2,800 other
ASTP candidates, to Camp Claiborne, LA to join the 84th Infantry Division.
Assigned to Company G, 335th Infantry Regiment, Kissinger departed for Germany
in November 1944 and, as part of the Ninth Army, quickly pushed into Germany
only to be driven back into Belgium during the Battle of the Bulge. By March,
the company was back in Germany, arriving at Krefled where Kissinger, a PFC
with no security clearance but displaying other obvious qualities, became the
administrator of the city. Shortly afterwards, he was transferred to the
Counter-Intellegence branch, promoted to the rank of Sergeant, and served with
distinction in other important occupational duties. Demobilized in May 1946,
Kissinger worked for a time in Europe as an instructor at the European Command
Counter Intelligence School in Oberhammergau before returning to the US,
entering Harvard University under the G.I. bill.


Something screwy he
Louisiana Maneuvers
The Great Louisiana Maneuvers also known as The Big One was the
largest military exercise of its kind ever held in United States,
involving half a million men and 19 Army Divisions, taking place over
3400 square miles of Louisiana during August - September 1941. It was
preparation for United States' entry into World War II. Many future
military heroes were involved, including Mark Clark, Omar Bradley,
Dwight D. Eisenhower, George Marshall and George Patton. A young
lieutenant named Henry Kissinger was also there.
http://www.fact-index.com/l/lo/louisiana_maneuvers.html

Henry Kissinger, a slim, tosseled-haired lieutenant with a heavy
German accent, was one of the most famous soldiers to come out of Camp
Claiborne during the Louisiana Maneuvers. His training in Louisiana
laid the foundation for his knowledge and grasps for understanding
Civil Action and handling of governmental problems on large and small
scales. This experience served him well in later years when he became
Secretary of State during the Richard Nixon administration.


http://www.crt.state.la.us/crt/touri...on/Careers.htm

In article ,
(Jack Linthicum) wrote:

ost (Chris Mark) wrote in message
...
From: Joe Osman Josph.Osman@veriz

I thought that he was in Military Government, there being a story of
him
becoming "military mayor" of the town his family was from.

Something screwy he

I haven't been able to find any reference besides this, and a couple of
online encyclopedias, that suggest Kissinger was in the Louisiana
maneuvers. The biographies I have specifically mention him getting into
military government as an enlisted man.

http://www.crt.state.la.us/crt/touri...ertson/Careers.
htm

For Kissenger's WW2 experiences, two biographies are useful:

"Kissinger, a Biography" by Walter Isaacson, 1992, and Kissinger, Portrait of a
Mind by Stephen R. Graubard, 1973.



Chris Mark

Bob McKellar wrote in message ...

After all the discussion of Kerry's VN history, I wondered
if we have had any other recent ( last 75 years or so )
presidents or major contenders who have killed somebody in a
personal and particular way. We have had bomb droppers (
GHWB, McGovern ) and Truman's artillery and Ford's AA, but
little close range infantry type experience in our leaders
since Teddy R.

Bob Kerrey would certainly qualify, but he didn't make it
too far in his presidential bid. Bob Dole was in serious
combat, but I don't know if his shooting experience was
aimed or "to whom it may concern".

Maybe I have forgotten something ( not an unusual event )
and maybe it is a silly thing to think about. However, I
think the experience of picking a particular human being and
blowing him away would have quite an effect on somebody.


I know for a fact that Laura Bush's automobile was more lethal than
Dubya's Delta Dagger turned out to be. One crash. One kill.

I'm only kidding! I'm kidding all of my fellow naval scientists.

Semper Sci
Do or die
Hold 'em high
At Haze Gray and USNI