wristbands for air sickness, do they work ?

"Tim Taylor" wrote in message
...

There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. Please don't
spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
back it up. You are not providing information that will help and
really only confuses the topic.

You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. My opinion
is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders.

YMMV

Vaughn

Having often been tossed around on rubber dinghies before and after
scuba diving in rough sea, I've noticed at least one mental factor to
motion sickness: contagion.
When one sailor starts vomiting, others follow soon...

Willy VINKEN MD


On Sun, 09 Nov 2008 19:47:40 GMT, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:


"Tim Taylor" wrote in message
...

There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. Please don't
spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
back it up. You are not providing information that will help and
really only confuses the topic.

You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. My opinion
is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders.

YMMV

Vaughn

On Nov 9, 12:47*pm, "Vaughn Simon"
wrote:
"Tim Taylor" wrote in message

...

There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. *Please don't
spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
back it up. *You are not providing information that will help and
really only confuses the topic.

* *You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. *My opinion
is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders..

* * YMMV

Vaughn

*You are entitled to your opinion, and entitled to post same here. *My
opinion
is informed from observing myself and hundreds of my shipmates in my Navy days
and years of providing Commercial glider rides and instructing in gliders..

* * YMMV

Vaughn

Vaughn,

I try not to deal in opinion in scientific matters. As I said,
please provide your references or data to back up your opinion that
air sickness is mostly mental. If not you are providing an opinion
that will actually mislead people and prevent them from finding
solutions that work. There is a great deal of literature that shows
that there are solutions and that the causes are not mental but
related to stimulus input.

Here are a few:


Motion sickness adaptation: a neural mismatch model.
J T Reason
J R Soc Med. 1978 November; 71(11): 819–829.
PMCID: PMC1436193

Motion sickness: a synthesis and evaluation of the sensory conflict
theory.
Oman CM.
Can J Physiol Pharmacol. 1990 Feb;68(2):294-303.

Physiological basis and pharmacology of motion sickness: an update
B. J. Yates, A. D. Miller and J. B. Lucot
Brain Research Bulletin
Volume 47, Issue 5, 15 November 1998, Pages 395-406

Tim

At 18:51 09 November 2008, Tim Taylor wrote:

Vaughn,

Please back up your statement "Motion sickness is partly physical but
mostly mental" with facts, references etc. I still get sick at the
beginning of each season and on days when the conditions are
unpredictable (wave, rough thermals, etc). The difference between you
flying and someone else is the predictability factor. When you fly
you know what you are going to do. For the most part I can find there
is little mental involved in airsickness. It is an inner ear issue
for most pilots where the inner ear is getting unpredictable stimulus
that causes the symptoms.

There are old wives tails form early military training that it is
mental, but so far no data I know of that back that up. Please don't
spread rumour and misinformation unless you can provide good data to
back it up. You are not providing information that will help and
really only confuses the topic.



I second Tim's question. I am a medical doctor and in my 40th season as
a glider pilot. I have suffered from motion sickness from very early
childhood in cars, boats and (later) gliders. There are clearly may
people like myself who have a physical predisposition to motion sickness
and it really annoys me to have dogmatic views continually asserted to the
effect that it is mainly a psychological problem. The proponents of this
view almost invariably cite the fact that people can reduce or eliminate
motion sickness by using physical conditioning regimes as support for the
psychological aetiology hypothesis. The flaw in this argument is so
startlingly obvious that it hardly needs stating but here goes: how does
the efficacy of a physical cure prove a psychological cause?

No doubt people susceptible to motion sickness can exacerbate it by
subconsciously learning to expect it and this aspect can be helped using
psychological techniques. Moreover a treatment that successfully
physically de-conditions one from motion sickness will indeed reduce the
secondary expectation effect. Overall I see no evidence to counter my
view that motion sickness is primarily a physical problem with a variable
degree of secondary psychological overlay.

As to treatments: there are no drugs that are safe to use during solo
glider flying. I confess now to having used them all long ago.

I personally have found the electronic median nerve stimulator wrist
band/watch thingy to be surprisingly effective. I am by nature and
training totally cynical about alternative medicine therapies and I don't
know how this thing works for me. I am worried that if I think about it
too hard I might undermine its benefit for me. I don't think it is
purely a placebo because passive wrist pressure bands placed on the same
point are very much less effective.

John Galloway

my expereience as a flight surgeon in a high performance sqadron has
shown me that anyone can get airsick. (my call sign, "Chunks"). if the
fighter pilots are out of the cockpit for several weeks- airsickness
is a distinct possibility. also when they fly as check pilot, (read
passenger), again, rarely they would admit to airsickness.
The worse scenario for the fighter guys? put them in a simulator where
the instruments move but not the cockpit- instant airsick for them,
(whited out closed canopy).

My considerable airsick experience learnings
1- puke and you will feel better and be ok to press on
2- oatmeal is about the least bothersome coming up
3- even I could get over the airsickness if I flew often enough

mj

On Nov 9, 1:31*pm, Mark Jardini wrote:
my expereience as a flight surgeon in a high performance sqadron has
shown me that anyone can get airsick. (my call sign, "Chunks"). if the
fighter pilots are out of the cockpit for several weeks- airsickness
is a distinct possibility. also when they fly as check pilot, (read
passenger), again, rarely they would admit to airsickness.
The worse scenario for the fighter guys? put them in a simulator where
the instruments move but not the cockpit- instant airsick for them,
(whited out closed canopy).

My considerable airsick experience learnings
1- puke and you will feel better and be ok to press on
2- oatmeal is about the least bothersome coming up
3- even I could get over the airsickness if I flew often enough

mj

A glider pilot I used to know in the UK would throw up early during a
flight, especially if out in the sun for a while. Less prone to do
this if under cloud shadows. He'd be fine after hurling. Maybe a few
hard rounds of dizzy bat as a conditioning exercise are in order

FW

Jack - email me if you are interested in trying that watch.
Colleen

On Nov 9, 7:10*am, "Jack" None wrote:
I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.
I have seen some adds about wristbands that look like a watch, they
electrically stimulate the median nerve and are supposed to prevent motion
sickness, since they do not have any side effects and the intensity is
adjustable it seems to be the ideal solution for me, I can gradually lower
the intensity until I am used to it.

I would be *very* cautious about using any drugs to combat motion
sickness, and personally I would seek advice from a doctor that is
qualified to give medical advice on aviation matters.

My daughter also suffers from motion sickness, particularly after
thermalling for a while or when spinning to lose height

She finds that she gets some comfort from some cheap-n-cheerful
wristbands ($10) consisting of an elasticated strap with a plastic
bobble about 1cm in diameter and 0.5cm thick. That bobble is placed
on a specific spot on the wrist. I was (and continue to be) sceptical
that it can have any benefit, but I'm not going to tell her that

I'm lucky: air sickenss hasn't been a problem for me, but I'm not
completely immune. I'm most likely to experience the beginnings
of nausea when I'm not flying the aircraft and when I'm looking
sidewards in turbulence. Looking straight forward has helped me.

They say that many pilots suffer from motion sickness, so don't
give up hope too soon.

Jack None wrote:
I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.

I have tried:
- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
- Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
still not good enough.

I really feel for you. I have struggled with motion sickness as well,
although from your description it seems that mine is not as much of a
problem.

When I first started taking lessons it worried me a lot because I had a
history of motion sickness. At the time I had even given up on
long-distance bus travel because they simply made me feel terrible. But I
wanted to fly enough that I decided to give it a shot, and everything was
fine.

Later on I started flying a 1-26 and for some reason this started making
me feel bad again. Fortunately for me it seems that it's *only* the 1-26
that regularly makes me feel sick. I have been sick in other gliders, but
it's rare and there's always some reason for it, like being overly tired,
or that one exciting time my canopy completely frosted over in rotor.

I don't know what it is about the 1-26, but I theorize that it's related
to the very upright and squished (I'm pretty tall) posture I have in it,
and the very large instrument panel that covers up my view.

I decided to simply not fly the 1-26 anymore, because I have lots of other
good options. But before I decided that, I spent some time trying to solve
the problem in other ways, partly because it took me some time to realize
that I was only getting sick in the 1-26, and partly because I really
enjoyed flying it. Keep in mind that motion sickness is largely
(entirely?) psychological, and so that to an even greater extent than many
other medical problems, it varies greatly depending on the individual.
Here's what I tried:

- Crystallized ginger. Highly recommended. Works pretty well, tastes good,
and makes a good snack even if you don't need it in the air. I know you
mentioned ginger tablets, but this may have an advantage simply because
you get to taste the stuff, and the taste may help.

- Drinking more. Getting dehydrated in flight was not helpful! Of course
this is bad anyway. I started carrying a camelbak along with me, and that
helped.

- Eating more/less/differently. I played around with what I ate, and when,
and how much, both for lunch around flight time and for breakfast in the
morning, and this helped as well.

- Contact lenses. I normally wear glasses, and I found that I'd often get
distracted by the frame of my glasses and this would make things get worse
fast. Wearing contacts gets rid of the frame, and I found a pair of
gigantic cheap sunglasses for when it's sunny that keeps the frame safely
out of view. This made a big difference.

- Sleep more. I found that for me, fatigue was a huge factor. I once got
very rapidly sick in a Grob 103 (which was normally just fine for me)
after a busy week at a technical conference.

- Follow the controls if somebody else is flying. This obviously wasn't a
make-or-break for me since I mainly had problems in a single-seater, but
it still seems like a good thing to do. If the other guy is flying, keep
your hand lightly (lightly!) on the stick and follow what he's doing.
Above all else ensure that you never interfere with his flying, but a
light touch can help ensure that you keep your brain informed of what
movements are coming.

And once again, just remember that these were my personal experiences and
yours may (probably will) vary. But I hope that might give you some ideas.

Lastly, you'll probably simply get better with time, as you acclimate. In
the lesson you desrcibe, you say that you were doing fine until the
instructor took over and flew some steep thermalling turns. This can be
pretty hard on the inner ear! It's no surprise that this caused you to
feel bad. Rather than focusing on how you got sick in these pretty trying
conditions, think about how well you were doing up to that point.
Eventually you should be able to do these more extreme maneuvers without
any trouble either, but just work up to it.

You asked about the electronic wristbands. I tried one of those as well,
it didn't do anything for me. I borrowed one from a club-mate for a try,
you may want to ask around and see if anyone in your area has one you
could borrow. It actually belonged to his wife, and she absolutely swears
by it. From what I've read, they have highly variable success depending on
the individual. It's certainly worth a shot if you can borrow one, or buy
one from a place with a good return policy.

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon

Michael Ash wrote:
Jack None wrote:
I am learning to fly gliders and I struggle with motion sickness.

I have tried:
- Ginder tablets, it helped but I was still a bit nauseaus.
- Motion sickness tablets, they affect my awareness and concentration.
- Chewing various things, best was beef jerky (not a joke) it helps but
still not good enough.

I really feel for you. I have struggled with motion sickness as well,
although from your description it seems that mine is not as much of a
problem.
[snip snip]

Forgot to mention: try not to move your head around too much. Slow, smooth
motions only if you can. (Obviously if moving your head quickly is
required for safe operation, then move your head quickly.) You want to
avoid sharp inputs to your vestibular canals. Hold your head steady when
you can, and move it slowly and smoothly when you need to.

Good luck!

--
Mike Ash
Radio Free Earth
Broadcasting from our climate-controlled studios deep inside the Moon