Hudson River Opportunity

In this potential dramatic incident, I think that the pilots and
passengers were also very lucky.

I remember pictures of another ditching during winter, (I am not sure
it was the Hudson) were there were many survivors from the ditching
itself but.....most of them died by hypothermia because the water was
freezing. The time that rescue came....it was too late. Only a few
were able to reach ground thanks to the courage of some people would
could help them from ground.

You're talking about Air Florida Flight 90, which went into the
Potomac River in Washington, DC back in 1982. A famous video shows one
bystander jumping into the icy river to rescue a woman who was too
cold to hang onto a rope.

-John

On Jan 17, 7:24 am, nimbus wrote:
In this potential dramatic incident, I think that the pilots and
passengers were also very lucky.

I remember pictures of another ditching during winter, (I am not sure
it was the Hudson) were there were many survivors from the ditching
itself but.....most of them died by hypothermia because the water was
freezing. The time that rescue came....it was too late. Only a few
were able to reach ground thanks to the courage of some people would
could help them from ground.

Yes indeed ! That's what I had in mind..
Bruno

On Jan 16, 6:53*pm, wrote:

I think the A320 has a RAT for hydraulics as I doubt you can certify
an airplane that turns into a lawn dart without engine power.

I have spent much of my career working on Douglas jets and am not
nearly so familiar with Airbus. I did a bit of research yesterday.
Yes A320 has a RAT and it automatically deploys on loss of AC bus 1
and 2 which would happen if both engines lost power (and the APU was
not running). The RAT powers the hydraulic system that feeds the
primary flight controls and the slats. I think flap hydraulics are
provided by a battery driven pump when land recovery mode is selected.
If the APU was running, no electrical or hydraulic power is lost.

Unlike Douglas and I think Boeing jets, the Airbus RAT drives a
hydraulic pump and there is a hydraulic driven generator for
electical power. Douglas ADG (Air Driven Generator, DC-10, MD-10 ,
MD-11) is an electrical generator that can be used to power an
electric hydraulic pump.

Andy

At 16:57 16 January 2009, Andy wrote:
On Jan 16, 9:48=A0am, "kirk.stant" wrote:

I noted that he did not have a seaplane rating and that one probably
would have been useful. He landed downstream though, perhaps he had
no other option with the altitude available. I don't know the Hudson
but it must have a fair current as the Airbus is reported to have gone
4 miles downstream before it was secured.

The Hudson is an estuary, and the current past Manhattan runs both ways.
To know which way the river was running, he would have had to know the
state of the tide. Maybe he should have had some training as captain of a
racing sailboat.

Jim Beckman

Hi All, When we first saw those pictures of the passengers standing on
the wings we did not realise that there were no engines on the underside
of the wings. They had snapped off in the landing, making the plane a
much better boat.

I wonder if this is an Airbus design feature, which could be activated by
the 'Ditch Switch'. Next time I see any of the lads from Chester, I
will ask them just what the Ditch Switch does.

They certainly make very good planes at Broughton.

Pilot Pete

On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:45:03 +0000, Peter Higgs wrote:

I wonder if this is an Airbus design feature, which could be activated
by the 'Ditch Switch'. Next time I see any of the lads from Chester, I
will ask them just what the Ditch Switch does.

At least one thing it does is to close all vents and drain pipes on the
underside of the plane to keep it afloat as long as possible.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Jan 17, 10:07*am, Martin Gregorie
wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jan 2009 14:45:03 +0000, Peter Higgs wrote:
I wonder if this is an Airbus design feature, which could be activated
by the 'Ditch Switch'. Next time I see any of the lads from Chester, I
will ask them just what the Ditch Switch does.

At least one thing it does is to close all vents and drain pipes on the
underside of the plane to keep it afloat as long as possible.

--
martin@ * | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org * * * |

From the USAirways A320 Pilot Handbook...

Ditching PB (Guarded) (PB = push button)
ON: The operating system sends a "close" signal to the outflow valve,
emergency rams air intake, avionics ventilation inlet and extract
valves, pack flow control valves, and forward cargo isolation out
valve (if installed).

Steve (Retired -USAirways)

If you go he http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/arc...comes_from.php
there is an uncut video from a surveillance camera. It shows the last
few seconds of 1549's water landing, the exit of the passengers, and
the arrival of three ferries. Plane lands at about 2 minutes in, a lot
of passengers out within a minute, the first ferry arrives within 4
minutes.

-John

On Jan 17, 6:45*am, Peter Higgs
wrote:
Hi All, When we first saw those pictures of the passengers standing on
the wings we did not realise that there were no engines on the underside
of the wings. They had snapped off in the landing, making the plane a
much better boat.

I wonder if this is an Airbus design feature, which could be activated by
the 'Ditch Switch'. Next time I see any of the lads from Chester, I
will ask them just what the Ditch Switch does.

They certainly make very good planes at Broughton.

Pilot Pete

I'm pretty sure it's a design feature. The underwing mounting of big
fans like that creates a pretty big downward pitching moment when they
hit something as dense as water. It could easily cause the plane to
submarine/break up/tumble upon contact with the water. The force is in
the opposite direction as typical thrust loads and presumably you can
design a mount that shears under that type of load.

I doubt you'd need (or want!) a button that sheds the engines, though
it raises the possibility of all kinds of practical jokes in the
cockpit.

9B