AOPA credit card --- WARNING.

On Wed, 1 Dec 2004 00:52:34 -0500, "Dick" wrote:

No, you couldn't be more wrong. Vendors choose the prices, consumers hold
the cards. Consumers make the purchases. The fees are passed to the
consumers.

In that sense, every cost is passed to the consumer. But in the case
of credit cards, only the guy using the card gets the payback.

After all, if every cost were simply passed to the consumer, why are
United and U.S.Airlines in bankruptcy court?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

"Cub Driver" wrote

In that sense, every cost is passed to the consumer. But in the case
of credit cards, only the guy using the card gets the payback.

After all, if every cost were simply passed to the consumer, why are
United and U.S.Airlines in bankruptcy court?

all the best -- Dan Ford

Bingo. They are not passing all the costs along, ant that means they are
not charging as much as the service costs. Hard to imagine why they are
losing money.
--
Jim in NC


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.804 / Virus Database: 546 - Release Date: 11/30/2004

On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 06:36:09 -0500, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Cub Driver" wrote

In that sense, every cost is passed to the consumer. But in the case
of credit cards, only the guy using the card gets the payback.

After all, if every cost were simply passed to the consumer, why are
United and U.S.Airlines in bankruptcy court?

all the best -- Dan Ford

Bingo. They are not passing all the costs along, ant that means they are
not charging as much as the service costs. Hard to imagine why they are
losing money.

In competitive businesses, such as airlines, you can't pass along costs
that are related to inefficiencies in the way you do your business. And you
can't pass along costs if those costs are higher than those of a
competitor.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:oPqrd.121946$V41.104020@attbi_s52...
I say, let me guess, my brother was never here. He says, never saw him
before in my life, see you guys next year. So cash buyers are always a
little more welcome around here than people with plastic.

One thing I've learned from owning three businesses: Don't start lying
about stuff like this.

Why?

a) I'm a bad liar.
b) I can't remember which lie I told to whom.

So, as much as I despise taxes, I play it straight, my books are clean, and
I sleep well at night.

Both of them? Yes, it is a good idea to dust your books bookshelfs
every now and then.

Bryan

Chuck wrote:

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message

I still don't see how this works as the interest you pay means that you
can now have even fewer necessities than if you paid cash for them.


You just don't get it, do ya?

Of the 3 "luxuries" that I said that I have, only one *might* have been
bought on credit and had to pay any interest. That would be the Dell PC. For
your information, I did charge that PC, but paid it off with my tax refund 2
months later. I paid 1 or 2 months of interest. Big deal. Dish Network and
SBC don't charge any interest that I am aware of.

If you will read, I have ONE credit card (Sears, for school clothes, tools,
etc) that I am paying interest on. For someone in my financial situation, I
don't feel that is all that bad.

Ok, I'll bite. If somebody is going to pay interest on one credit card, why
choose a Sears Card (now issued by CitiBank), which usually has an APR in excess
of 21%(!)? Even doing something silly like a balance transfer to a lower rate
card (like one of the many offers that show up offering 0 to 5% APR) would make
more sense.

Would you stop trying to pry into my personal situation please.

Who is "prying?" into anything? You freely posted your financial situation for
all to view.

Jay Honeck wrote:

Well in my case I don't have a 'real' credit card. I have a debit visa
(work just the same). I keep most of my spendable money in checking then
use the Visa the same as cash. If I can't afford something then I don't
buy it.

It does NOT work the same.

a) Don't try renting a car.

And don't try using to reserve a hotel suite. Most debit cards (unless it's
a "dual" debit/credit card) will not work with a preauthorization -- which
is what is required to make a guaranteed reservation.

Offline debit cards (that is when cards are used without the PIN, i.e.
transactions that use the Visa or Mastercard brand network) do support
preauthorization. That's a Visa/MC requirement. When the card is charged at the
merchant, the amount of sale is preauthorized instantly. On a regular credit
card, this just instantly lowers the current available credit amount by the same
amount. But on an offline debit card is used, it puts a hold on the funds in
the bank account. That means that this amount is unavailable to withdraw, have
checks drawn on, etc. even though the money is still in the account as long as
the hold exists. This is how Visa/MC guarantees that the money will be
available when the charge posts (usually 2-3 days out).

The hold goes away when the charge posts (e.g. actual transaction amount is
charged to the account) or else it times out (1-2 weeks) if no charge actually
posts.

Sometimes a preauthorized hold is put on the card without an actual transaction
amount known yet just to make sure there will be enough funds available.
Examples are pay-at-the-gas-pump transactions (usually $50 is preauthorized
before you start pumping), restaurants where an extra amount is pre-authorized
in expectation of a tip, hotels (where they preauthorize for guaranteed
reservations to make sure the card is valid, and also when you check in to
preauthorize some amount for the expected stay and possible incidentals), rental
car places etc. Also AOPA preauthorized $1 every six months or so if you have
auto-renewal to make sure the card is active. You'll never see that $1 on your
statement because they never post the charge.

It's important to understand that just because an amount is preauthorized does
not necessarily mean that it will post to your account. However it will tie up
that amount, either in credit line for a credit card or actual bank funds for a
debit card.

That is another big disadvantage to using debit cards, especially if it causes
you to bounce checks even though there is bank physically in the account but it
is effectively locked until the hold expires.

By the way, MBNA actually shows you preauthorized charge amounts AND who is
making the charge online. Most other credit issuers do not, although you can
usually see how much is pre-authorized (held) by taking your credit limit,
subtracting known charges and balances, and observing any discrepancy between
that difference and the current available credit. (Rounded to the nearest
dollar).

An "online debit" transaction requires a PIN and uses the ATM/POS networks.
Money is debited instantly and there is no preauthorizing then posting later.

I think cards that only suport online debit (e.g. no mastercard or visa logo)
are much better since if somebody steals it they can't do squat without the
PIN. That no-fraud guarantee on MC/Visa debits is nice, but it doesn't help you
right away while your checking account's been cleaned out, your checks are
bouncing, and your card won't work. Sorry for you if you have automatic
overdraft protection from savings too.

"Janet" wrote

snip a bunch of stuff so I can bitch about somethingg

Sometimes a preauthorized hold is put on the card without an actual
transaction
amount known yet just to make sure there will be enough funds available.
Examples are pay-at-the-gas-pump transactions (usually $50 is
preauthorized
before you start pumping),

What is that all about? $50 for gas on a card? That does not even come
close for me. My full size work van has a tank that will hold 31.6 gallons
of gas, and still be running. With gas at times up to $1.89, I have to let
the pump shut off, and then have to start up another charge to finish
filling up. Let's get real here, gas station owners of America!Thanks, I
feel better now.

Required aviation content: I drove that van up to OSH this year, and it
would have been cheaper to charter a plane, after buying the gas and a new
transmission. (well, almost) :-)
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:

"Janet" wrote

snip a bunch of stuff so I can bitch about somethingg

Sometimes a preauthorized hold is put on the card without an actual
transaction
amount known yet just to make sure there will be enough funds available.
Examples are pay-at-the-gas-pump transactions (usually $50 is
preauthorized
before you start pumping),

What is that all about? $50 for gas on a card? That does not even come
close for me. My full size work van has a tank that will hold 31.6 gallons
of gas, and still be running. With gas at times up to $1.89, I have to let
the pump shut off, and then have to start up another charge to finish
filling up. Let's get real here, gas station owners of America!Thanks, I
feel better now.

Increasing that value would mean larger credit/debit preauthorized holds for
everybody, including the vast majority of people that fill up with less than
$50 at time. Why inconvenience everybody? If you need to pump more, just
restart the pump or pay with another method.

"Janet" wrote

Increasing that value would mean larger credit/debit preauthorized holds
for
everybody, including the vast majority of people that fill up with less
than
$50 at time. Why inconvenience everybody?

Inconvenience? What? You mean there are people running around filling
their tanks with a credit card, that will not have another $10 available on
their credit line? I'm not buying it, and neither would you if you thought
about it. In the meantime, it costs me, and all others with big tanks
another few extra minutes when we fill up. *That* is inconvenience, and I
will not go back to a place that has not kept up with the times and made a
higher preauthorizations.

If you need to pump more, just
restart the pump or pay with another method.

Rediculous.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
saction

amount known yet just to make sure there will be enough funds available.
Examples are pay-at-the-gas-pump transactions (usually $50 is

preauthorized

before you start pumping),

Actually, that's WRONG. What they usually do is put through a $1
preauthorization. The $50 limit they put on the pumping is a number
that the point of sale determines is the max they will do based on that
$1 preauth.