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#31
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"John Clonts" writes: [...] 1) Does "having the runway environment in sight...make a normal landing" in 91.175 mean its ok to descend below MDA, fly a couple more miles to the airport and then fly the pattern (circle to land), as long as the runway is still in sight. [...] One thing that troubles me about this is your reference to circling-to-land. Up here in Canada, the IFR rules say that a descent from the MDA for circling can only be done at the "final descent for landing" - basically for the final approach. (I believe there is a similar restriction for straight-in landings too.) Look at it another way. If there was no prohibition against descending below the MDA in this circumstance, what would keep a pilot from going to 100 AGL at the earliest hole through the clouds, and skirting the ground all the way to the airport? You are obviously leaving all the IAP obstruction clearance margins, but are not making that explicit by requesting a contact approach. That doesn't sound right. - FChE |
#32
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If you have the runway in sight you don't need to cancel or request a
contact approach Steve, If this ap is a non-towered ap then he would have been allowed to change freq to CTAF once cleared for the approach. Once he was assured a landing or after he was on the ground I think he'd have to tune back to approach control and cancel IFR with ATC. Kobra |
#33
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"Kobra" wrote in message ... If this ap is a non-towered ap then he would have been allowed to change freq to CTAF once cleared for the approach. Once he was assured a landing or after he was on the ground I think he'd have to tune back to approach control and cancel IFR with ATC. Or via phone call to FSS, but what's your point? |
#34
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net... "John Clonts" wrote in message ... The gist of my question involves either or both of these aspects: 1) Does "having the runway environment in sight...make a normal landing" in 91.175 mean its ok to descend below MDA, fly a couple more miles to the airport and then fly the pattern (circle to land), as long as the runway is still in sight. Yes. Thanks, this is as I hoped. Somewhere along the way I had picked up a suspicion that I couldn't legally descend from MDA until aligned with the runway. 2) Once I get to class G airspace on my approach and am clear of clouds in 1 mi vis, can I then descend below MDA by doing something like declaring myself visual, contact, or canceled IFR. No, you do not get to Class G airspace at any point at or above the MDA. Ok, if not on this particular example, let's say it was http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...l/BWD_vr17.pdf where MDA is 434 haa/hat, and class G up to 700? Do any new options open up to me once I descend out of controlled airspace at 700 agl, clear of clouds and 1 mi vis? E.g. I could cancel IFR at that point... Thanks again, John |
#35
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On a circling approach, it's always Height Above Airport (HAA)
EDR wrote: In article . net, Hilton wrote: John Clonts wrote: I'm inbound on the final approach segment of the VOR-A approach at T82 (Fredericksburg Texas): http://www.myairplane.com/databases/.../T82_vd_gA.pdf At about 3 miles east of the airport I'm at the MDA of 2460 MSL ("766 AGL"), This was (one of) your (almost) fatal mistake. At 2460' and 3 miles out, you probably were not at 766 AGL. The 766 you see is NOT AGL as you would first think. The 766' is the altitude above the airport elevation (for a circling approach). Note that 1694 + 766 = 2460. It's probable that a lot of instrument pilots do not know this. Let's pick nits... Is it Height Above Aerodrome? or Height Above Threshhold? |
#36
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Or via phone call to FSS, but what's your point?
Hmmm....I just re-read your post and I thought you were stating that he would not have to cancel *IFR*. Now that I read closer I see you were referring to a *contact approach*. What's my point? I'm a lousy reader. Kobra |
#37
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"Kobra" wrote in message ... Hmmm....I just re-read your post and I thought you were stating that he would not have to cancel *IFR*. Now that I read closer I see you were referring to a *contact approach*. What's my point? I'm a lousy reader. I was saying he wouldn't have to cancel IFR or request a contact approach in order to descend from the MDA if he had the runway in sight. Of course he would still have to cancel his IFR clearance eventually. |
#38
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"John Clonts" wrote in message ... Ok, if not on this particular example, let's say it was http://www.myairplane.com/databases/...l/BWD_vr17.pdf where MDA is 434 haa/hat, and class G up to 700? Do any new options open up to me once I descend out of controlled airspace at 700 agl, clear of clouds and 1 mi vis? E.g. I could cancel IFR at that point... Yes, on this approach you enter Class G airspace before reaching the MDA. |
#39
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"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ... No, you may descend below the MDA upon sighting the runway environment. That's what I thought and was instructed to do. Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#40
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John Clonts wrote:
snip Somewhere along the way I had picked up a suspicion that I couldn't legally descend from MDA until aligned with the runway. I've seen this recommended as a conservative rule to keep yourself safe on a circling approach, but it's not regulatory. On some approaches it will be just about impossible. You'll find that in order to descend using "normal" maneuvers you'll need to start your descent before alignment with the runway. Consider what happens if you are circling with visibility near the minimum for the approach and don't descend from MDA until you are aligned. Will you be able to get down? OTOH, whenever you decide to descend below MDA, you are giving up the obstacle protection that the approach designers built in, and substituting your own visual obstacle avoidance. It's a tradeoff. snip Dave Remove SHIRT to reply directly |
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