Flying Lessons

I'm going to add something that noone else has offered up yet. Go down to
your local flight school, wherever it is, and talk to an instructor, ask
questions.... take notes, you may or may not like what you hear. Think
practical here.

If 3mil is too much to spend for a jet and training, don't bother wiht the
jet. Even if you got one for less then a million, the fixed annual
inspection/maintenance costs are outrageously high, figure in fuel and other
variable operational costs and you can easilly be spending in excess of 2
thousand bux an hour to fly depending on how much you fly the thing.

As far as training... Learn in a single engine piston aircraft, trust me, it
will make you a much safer pilot. Frankly I don't want to fly in the same
piece of sky as a jet with a pilot that has little or no piston experience.
Why do I say that? In the jet you learn how to operate a machine, punch
buttons, occasionally handfly. In the smaller planes you really learn how
to AVIATE, not simply a matter of "driving the airplane" but FLYING the
airplane in an everchanging environment where everyone IS out to get you (or
so you should tell yourself so you keep your head on a swivle to make sure
they miss). Also consider an instrument approach, in a small play you could
easilly have as long as five minutes to execute the inbound portion of the
approach and landing, which means you have five mintues to correct for any
minor deviations in coures and altitude, much easier to learn to fly in
(even then it will feel like you are trying to catch up to the airplane),
cus there WILL be deviaitons in course and altitude, even for a guy with
thousands and thousands of hours of flying. In the jet your inbound course
and landing can happein in less than two minutes, meaning if you "Eff it up
a little" your responses should be more then twice as quick, WITHOUT
overcorrecting, much better to learn this in a small plane, and step it up
to faster and faster planes as you gain profeciency. (Tell me, would you
ever expect success in sacking an NFL quarterback without lots and lots of
practice and intermediate steps?). Figure on around 3-6 months to get your
private pilot and instrument ratings. Once thats out of the way I would
actually suggest you go for a multi-commercial-instrument, its not a route
many people take, but is a very good option, basically you have to learn all
the multi engine manuevers, and execute them to commercial standards, may
have to learn seperate commercial manuevers depending on the particular
aircraft (I know you probably won't have to do a Power Off Precision Landing
in a multi engine plane, but you may need to do a chandel or something
similar if its safe to do so in that particular plane), add on a single
engine instrument approach in there somewhere and you've got your Commercial
Multi Instrument. Regs also require you to have 250 hours (and several
other requirements) to take your commercial checkride, excellent
oppertunities to learn some aviation on your own time without an instructor
holding your hand the entire way, I would hate to see your first solo
instrument approach happen in a Jet. You can easilly get all of this done
in less than a year if you suck it up and do it.

I don't like pilots that are afraid to fly, at the same time I REALLY dont'
like pilots that think they can fly..... Don't let yourself get into these
two catagories, find a nice happy medium of safety minded caution and
confidence in skills, don't be an aviation pussy that is afraid of the
airplane, but at the same time don't be cocky to the point you end up dead,
or worse, end up haveing to live with the fact that you made other people
dead).


Also the advantage of doing the commercial multi route would insure that you
have at least 250 hours by the time you start flying jets (and completing
the appropriate type training course). Consider that you will likely have
to have an instructor or other qualified pilot sitting in the right seat
of the jet to keep the insurance company happy till you get to at LEAST 500
hours total time, and possibly to 1000 hours JET TIME. Having that 250 out
of the way may reduce how long you have to have that seat warmer with out
(and concidentally that seat warmer may like to get paid for his/her time!)

Also consider a multi or single engine turboprop aircraft instead of the
jet, they will likely be cheaper to buy and fly then a jet, and true, you
may not be able to fly coast to coast in a single leg, but you can still do
it a hellova lot faster than driving, AND you can fly into airports a
turbojet/fan may not be able to get in and out of (there are a lot more
runways out there less than 5000 feet long, then there are runways 5000'
long or greater) For this reason my ultimate millionare fun toy would be a
Beech C-90 King Air, reasonably quick, excellent utility, small enough to
fit in most hangers, plus they sound cool.


Damn... i don't post often, but when i do... i get a bit long winded...




"Steve" wrote in message
. ..


I'm considering taking up flying as a hobby. It's something I've been
wanting to do
since I was a kid. The ultimate goal is to learn how to fly lear jets or
should I say private
light jets. What flight training classes would I have to take and how many
hrs would I
have to perform. I can pretty much fly as many times a week as necessary
to get the
training my job schedule is highly flexible. I have noticed that most
courses run from 5
to 7 k. To get a private pilots license. But what would it take to have
the licensing to fly
a lear. And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL. I saw
where I could
get a PPL for 8,000 and get instrument training for another 6,000. Is
there another
course needed to fly a lear and can all the classes be taken concurrently.

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:50:30 GMT, Steve wrote
in ::

I'll look for flight schools with twins first
and see if I can get a good match with the instructors.


Where are you located? Are you in Orange County, CA?

I'm in Los Angeles

On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:16:51 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 23:50:30 GMT, Steve wrote
in ::

I'll look for flight schools with twins first
and see if I can get a good match with the instructors.


Where are you located? Are you in Orange County, CA?

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 17:11:51 -0700, "nooneimportant" no.spam@me
wrote:


I'm going to add something that noone else has offered up yet. Go down to
your local flight school, wherever it is, and talk to an instructor, ask
questions.... take notes, you may or may not like what you hear. Think
practical here.

If 3mil is too much to spend for a jet and training, don't bother wiht the
jet. Even if you got one for less then a million, the fixed annual
inspection/maintenance costs are outrageously high, figure in fuel and other
variable operational costs and you can easilly be spending in excess of 2
thousand bux an hour to fly depending on how much you fly the thing.

As far as training... Learn in a single engine piston aircraft, trust me, it
will make you a much safer pilot. Frankly I don't want to fly in the same
piece of sky as a jet with a pilot that has little or no piston experience.
Why do I say that? In the jet you learn how to operate a machine, punch
buttons, occasionally handfly. In the smaller planes you really learn how
to AVIATE, not simply a matter of "driving the airplane" but FLYING the
airplane in an everchanging environment where everyone IS out to get you (or
so you should tell yourself so you keep your head on a swivle to make sure
they miss). Also consider an instrument approach, in a small play you could
easilly have as long as five minutes to execute the inbound portion of the
approach and landing, which means you have five mintues to correct for any
minor deviations in coures and altitude, much easier to learn to fly in
(even then it will feel like you are trying to catch up to the airplane),
cus there WILL be deviaitons in course and altitude, even for a guy with
thousands and thousands of hours of flying. In the jet your inbound course
and landing can happein in less than two minutes, meaning if you "Eff it up
a little" your responses should be more then twice as quick, WITHOUT
overcorrecting, much better to learn this in a small plane, and step it up
to faster and faster planes as you gain profeciency. (Tell me, would you
ever expect success in sacking an NFL quarterback without lots and lots of
practice and intermediate steps?). Figure on around 3-6 months to get your
private pilot and instrument ratings. Once thats out of the way I would
actually suggest you go for a multi-commercial-instrument, its not a route
many people take, but is a very good option, basically you have to learn all
the multi engine manuevers, and execute them to commercial standards, may
have to learn seperate commercial manuevers depending on the particular
aircraft (I know you probably won't have to do a Power Off Precision Landing
in a multi engine plane, but you may need to do a chandel or something
similar if its safe to do so in that particular plane), add on a single
engine instrument approach in there somewhere and you've got your Commercial
Multi Instrument. Regs also require you to have 250 hours (and several
other requirements) to take your commercial checkride, excellent
oppertunities to learn some aviation on your own time without an instructor
holding your hand the entire way, I would hate to see your first solo
instrument approach happen in a Jet. You can easilly get all of this done
in less than a year if you suck it up and do it.

I don't like pilots that are afraid to fly, at the same time I REALLY dont'
like pilots that think they can fly..... Don't let yourself get into these
two catagories, find a nice happy medium of safety minded caution and
confidence in skills, don't be an aviation pussy that is afraid of the
airplane, but at the same time don't be cocky to the point you end up dead,
or worse, end up haveing to live with the fact that you made other people
dead).


Also the advantage of doing the commercial multi route would insure that you
have at least 250 hours by the time you start flying jets (and completing
the appropriate type training course). Consider that you will likely have
to have an instructor or other qualified pilot sitting in the right seat
of the jet to keep the insurance company happy till you get to at LEAST 500
hours total time, and possibly to 1000 hours JET TIME. Having that 250 out
of the way may reduce how long you have to have that seat warmer with out
(and concidentally that seat warmer may like to get paid for his/her time!)

Also consider a multi or single engine turboprop aircraft instead of the
jet, they will likely be cheaper to buy and fly then a jet, and true, you
may not be able to fly coast to coast in a single leg, but you can still do
it a hellova lot faster than driving, AND you can fly into airports a
turbojet/fan may not be able to get in and out of (there are a lot more
runways out there less than 5000 feet long, then there are runways 5000'
long or greater) For this reason my ultimate millionare fun toy would be a
Beech C-90 King Air, reasonably quick, excellent utility, small enough to
fit in most hangers, plus they sound cool.


Damn... i don't post often, but when i do... i get a bit long winded...

I for one thought it was a very informative post I plan on being
around a bit. So feel free to correct my thinking at will. BTW that
Beech C-90 King Air is a cool looking airplane.










"Steve" wrote in message
...


I'm considering taking up flying as a hobby. It's something I've been
wanting to do
since I was a kid. The ultimate goal is to learn how to fly lear jets or
should I say private
light jets. What flight training classes would I have to take and how many
hrs would I
have to perform. I can pretty much fly as many times a week as necessary
to get the
training my job schedule is highly flexible. I have noticed that most
courses run from 5
to 7 k. To get a private pilots license. But what would it take to have
the licensing to fly
a lear. And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL. I saw
where I could
get a PPL for 8,000 and get instrument training for another 6,000. Is
there another
course needed to fly a lear and can all the classes be taken concurrently.

Steve wrote:

Point taken, But when you talk about specialized type rating schools
how do you go about finding out where they are and what their
requirements are I couldn't find them that's why i'm posting here. The
only thing I saw was for the buying a new lear or cessna citation.
However 3 million for a plane is not quite in the budget. Or can you
take these classes from these companies without actually flying home
in a new plane.

Try http://www.landings.com and check out flight schools.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

I caught that two just didnt want to be annoying by asking what the A
was for

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 20:59:28 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


Private Pilot - Single Engine Land

It is a nit, but you left out the "airplane"

Private Pilot - Airplane Single Engine Land

Thanks


On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:54:21 GMT, George Patterson
wrote:





Steve wrote:

Point taken, But when you talk about specialized type rating schools
how do you go about finding out where they are and what their
requirements are I couldn't find them that's why i'm posting here. The
only thing I saw was for the buying a new lear or cessna citation.
However 3 million for a plane is not quite in the budget. Or can you
take these classes from these companies without actually flying home
in a new plane.

Try http://www.landings.com and check out flight schools.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

Private Pilot - Single Engine Land

It is a nit, but you left out the "airplane"

Private Pilot - Airplane Single Engine Land
--
Jim in NC

That's the only data point I have. The reason I point it out is to
demonstrate that most 'hobby' flyers fly piston. John Travolta and Jimmy
Buffet are the only names I know who fly jets as their personal aircraft.
I'm sure there are others, but they're all out of my price range.

"Steve" wrote in message
...
That sounds like something way bigger than what I would consider
flying.


On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:58:26 GMT, "Steve Foley"
wrote:

Just for comparison:

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a corporate pilot. I spend $200
to
fill the tanks in my Cherokee 140. His company spends $7,000 to fill the
tanks in his Hawker.

Steve wrote:
On 20 Sep 2005 08:50:27 -0700, wrote:

How flexible is that schedule? You could go to an ab-initio school that
feeds people into the regional airlines in 12-18 months and get all the

I'm not that flexible and that route appears to be cumbersome and
under a corporate thumb I don't do well in those types of situations.

Fair enough, but keep in mind that in that case a large portion of the
corporate thumb exists to keep cocky/inexperienced pilots from bending
airplanes and scaring passengers, or worse.


If you don't have quite that much time, you could pay to get a type
rating at FlightSafety and look for work flying right seat for check

Can I go this route without working for someone else. Maybe doing
charity work for something like the "Angel Flight" I saw mentioned
here??

Perhaps, but what you're looking to get is loggable turbojet time, and
the guys loaning their jets to Angel Flight are also supplying the
crews. It's the third-tier charter companies, freight dogs, etc. who
might have need of a cheap and willing SIC and if you hang around the
field and get to know the right people you might find yourself getting
some time here and there.


Also, you might want to consider whether you really need a turbojet
airplane... A Lancair Columbia will cruise over 200kts which makes

Can I fly one of these planes you mentioned from L.A. to New York in a
fairly resonable amount of time at night or during somewhat unclear
weather.

If JFK-LAX is your typical flight, I'd take myself over to NetJets and
buy a fractional share and let somebody else do the driving. That trip
is at least 8 hours flying time (and 1, more likely 2 fuel stops) even
in a Mustang or CitationJet, which is a 12-14 hour day before you hit
the ground in LA. I suspect most guys either take a co-pilot or spread
the flying out over two days. You need to go quite a ways up the food
chain to something like a Hawker 800XP before you can make that trip
non-stop, and until you can do that, American Airlines will get you
there faster even adding in the time to take your shoes off, yadda
yadda.

Where an owner-flown aircraft really shines is in the 300-1500nm trips
where you're going direct and non-stop between two places the airlines
don't go direct. Let's say you're spending the weekend at a beach house
in Maine up near Bangor, and on Monday you want to meet with a client
in Syracuse. If you're lucky you'll leave your house at 6am and be
there by noon on the airlines, who will fly you to Newark or Philly
first. There's not too many flights either so if there's any problems
or delays you may not get there until sometime closer to dinner.

I, on the other hand, arrive at the airport at 7, have some coffee,
preflight, maybe file a flight plan, take off around 8, and arrive a
little after 11 in my fire-breathing Cessna 172 (105 knots on a good
day). In a Cirrus or Lancair you'll get there by 10. The faster the
airplane, the bigger the ranges can get. What is your typical mission?
That will dictate the right plane for you.

Now, your question mentioned weather. Good question. I would not
consider a Columbia with anti-ice to be an all-weather airplane, but
it's pretty good. A turbine engine (something like a Meridian) will buy
you more leeway to climb up and above the weather faster. A very light
jet still isn't all-weather but the range of what it can't handle is
relatively limited. Really bad thunderstorms will ground the airlines
too, but they'll push right through ice that would ruin your day fast.

-cwk.