New Story on my Website

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 2/4/2004 6:23 AM Central Standard Time
Message-id:

Subject: New Story on my Website
From: "John Keeney"
Date: 2/4/04 12:44 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: New Story on my Website
From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 2/3/04 3:21 PM Pacific

elt sorry for him. But while we were risking our necks over Germany and
losing
good men, he was curled up and whining under a blanket. He flew with us,
but
after that not a single man in the 344th considered him to be one of us.


Remember that thousands of men were wounded, recovered and went back to
combat
duty. It was the norm. Same in the infantry. It was the norm there too.You
do
have some options in war, But not fighting isn't one of them.

Hanging by your ankle as you descend by parachute is not the norm
though and it really helps some times when you have the chance to
screw your courage up to face horrible but predictable things.

Jesus, between the blood rushing to his head, the realization that the
parachute harness was not designed to hold like that and is likely to
slip off at any second, it's wonder he ever stopped screaming.



Wasn't there an RAF fighter pilot who lost both legs in a fiery crash,
recovered and went back to flying combat missions wearing artificial legs?



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer


Douglas Bader.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: Mike Marron

snip

I don't know if he coined it or not and feel free to correct me if I'm
wrong, but one of the things about Bader I like was his saying,
"illigitimi non carborundum" (e.g: don't let the *******s grind ya'
down).

My latin is a bit weak, but I think it's "illigitimus non tatum carborundum"

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: New Story on my Website
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 2/4/04 6:22 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: New Story on my Website
From: "John Keeney"
Date: 2/4/04 12:44 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: New Story on my Website
From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 2/3/04 3:21 PM Pacific

elt sorry for him. But while we were risking our necks over
Germany
and
losing
good men, he was curled up and whining under a blanket. He flew
with
us,
but
after that not a single man in the 344th considered him to be
one
of
us.


Remember that thousands of men were wounded, recovered and went
back
to
combat
duty. It was the norm. Same in the infantry. It was the norm there
too.You
do
have some options in war, But not fighting isn't one of them.

Hanging by your ankle as you descend by parachute is not the norm
though and it really helps some times when you have the chance to
screw your courage up to face horrible but predictable things.

Jesus, between the blood rushing to his head, the realization that
the
parachute harness was not designed to hold like that and is likely
to
slip off at any second, it's wonder he ever stopped screaming.



Wasn't there an RAF fighter pilot who lost both legs in a fiery
crash,
recovered and went back to flying combat missions wearing artificial
legs?

Yes there was, and it was my pleasure to have known him for many years.
Douglas Bader.

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship



There were men who bounced back no matter what, and then there were
those
that
didn't. Bader's courage and determination was a lesson for all of us. A
man I
would have been proud to have known.

What endeared Douglas to me had nothing to do with his heroics in the air,
which were considerable to say the least. Many don't know this about him
because he did it quietly, but Douglas was singularly responsible for
bettering the lives of countless severely handicapped children and adults;
people with whom he spent untold hours of his time helping through his
unending wit and dominating personality. I can't even begin to count the
lives he changed by stumping into a paraplegic ward somewhere or anywhere,
then jumping up on a table and dancing on his tin legs!
He turned despair into hope. Then he stuck around and turned hope into
reality for these people.
Douglas was the epitome of what is possible through sheer guts and will. I
miss our late night inter-country phone conversations between Maryland and
Petersham Mews while we "re-fought" the Battle of Britain as I drove him
absolutely nuts eating my corn flakes dry from a cup; crackling in his
ears
through the line as we
attempted to get "Keith Park and Lee Mallory together in the same room
again
without shouting at each other!!!" :-)
I guess there are many ways to remember a man like Douglas. Certainly his
courage is one of them. Personally, for me, his memory goes much deeper
than
that. Of all his many attributes, what will last in memory for me was his
unselfish love for his fellow man.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

I guess you know he was shot down and spent time in a POW camp, And in one
of the very few examples of compassion during WW2 ( and maybe respect) The
Germans gave safe passage to an RAF plane to drop a pair of artificial legs,
as his had been damaged when he baled out !

Regards, BMC

"Brian Colwell" wrote in message
news:zQeUb.403484$ts4.258352@pd7tw3no...

"Dudley Henriques" wrote in message
link.net...

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: New Story on my Website
From: "Dudley Henriques"
Date: 2/4/04 6:22 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: New Story on my Website
From: "John Keeney"
Date: 2/4/04 12:44 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: New Story on my Website
From: "Paul J. Adam"
Date: 2/3/04 3:21 PM Pacific

elt sorry for him. But while we were risking our necks over
Germany
and
losing
good men, he was curled up and whining under a blanket. He
flew
with
us,
but
after that not a single man in the 344th considered him to be
one
of
us.


Remember that thousands of men were wounded, recovered and went
back
to
combat
duty. It was the norm. Same in the infantry. It was the norm
there
too.You
do
have some options in war, But not fighting isn't one of them.

Hanging by your ankle as you descend by parachute is not the norm
though and it really helps some times when you have the chance to
screw your courage up to face horrible but predictable things.

Jesus, between the blood rushing to his head, the realization that
the
parachute harness was not designed to hold like that and is likely
to
slip off at any second, it's wonder he ever stopped screaming.



Wasn't there an RAF fighter pilot who lost both legs in a fiery
crash,
recovered and went back to flying combat missions wearing
artificial
legs?

Yes there was, and it was my pleasure to have known him for many
years.
Douglas Bader.

Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship



There were men who bounced back no matter what, and then there were
those
that
didn't. Bader's courage and determination was a lesson for all of us.
A
man I
would have been proud to have known.

What endeared Douglas to me had nothing to do with his heroics in the
air,
which were considerable to say the least. Many don't know this about him
because he did it quietly, but Douglas was singularly responsible for
bettering the lives of countless severely handicapped children and
adults;
people with whom he spent untold hours of his time helping through his
unending wit and dominating personality. I can't even begin to count the
lives he changed by stumping into a paraplegic ward somewhere or
anywhere,
then jumping up on a table and dancing on his tin legs!
He turned despair into hope. Then he stuck around and turned hope into
reality for these people.
Douglas was the epitome of what is possible through sheer guts and will.
I
miss our late night inter-country phone conversations between Maryland
and
Petersham Mews while we "re-fought" the Battle of Britain as I drove him
absolutely nuts eating my corn flakes dry from a cup; crackling in his
ears
through the line as we
attempted to get "Keith Park and Lee Mallory together in the same room
again
without shouting at each other!!!" :-)
I guess there are many ways to remember a man like Douglas. Certainly
his
courage is one of them. Personally, for me, his memory goes much deeper
than
that. Of all his many attributes, what will last in memory for me was
his
unselfish love for his fellow man.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot/ CFI Retired
For personal email, please replace
the z's with e's.
dhenriquesATzarthlinkDOTnzt

I guess you know he was shot down and spent time in a POW camp, And in one
of the very few examples of compassion during WW2 ( and maybe respect) The
Germans gave safe passage to an RAF plane to drop a pair of artificial
legs,
as his had been damaged when he baled out !

Regards, BMC


Sorry, Correction , He wasn't shot down, it was a
air to air collision with a German a/c

BMC

"Brian Colwell" wrote in message
news:zQeUb.403484$ts4.258352@pd7tw3no...



I guess you know he was shot down and spent time in a POW camp, And in one
of the very few examples of compassion during WW2 ( and maybe respect) The
Germans gave safe passage to an RAF plane to drop a pair of artificial
legs,
as his had been damaged when he baled out !


As I recall he left one behind in the plane as it was trapped
in the wreckage of the controls. Of course being the man
he was he immediately tried to escape on his new legs.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" wrote in message
...

"Brian Colwell" wrote in message
news:zQeUb.403484$ts4.258352@pd7tw3no...



I guess you know he was shot down and spent time in a POW camp, And in
one
of the very few examples of compassion during WW2 ( and maybe respect)
The
Germans gave safe passage to an RAF plane to drop a pair of artificial
legs,
as his had been damaged when he baled out !


As I recall he left one behind in the plane as it was trapped
in the wreckage of the controls. Of course being the man
he was he immediately tried to escape on his new legs.

Keith

Thanks Keith, I remember reading about it, and the fact he had tried to
escape, and I believe they used to take his *legs* away at night !

BMC

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
news
"Dudley Henriques" wrote:
"Mike Marron" wrote:

With all due respect to Bader, losing both legs
is *nothing* compared to surviving unimaginable torture for 6-7 years
in the Hanoi Hilton.

Mike;

It's possible to make a point about the severity of the Hanoi Hilton
without
this unfortunate comparison.

Point taken. My apologies if I offended.

No problem, and thank you for your response.
Dudley

Subject: New Story on my Website
From: "Joe Osman"
Date: 2/4/04 8:13 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

Geoffrey Perret in his popular history of the Army Air Forces in World War
II - "Winged Victory" mentions several times that entire aircrews talked
openly about landing in Sweden or Switzerland just to get out of the war.
I'm sure there were less "gung ho" squadrons and wings than Art's where they
thought that they could get away with such talk. At the end of the war in
the ETO, there was about a division's worth of deserters in the US Army. I
wonder if some crews actually did desert in this way, and if they did, what
happened to them after the war.

Joe


Go to my website and read "God bless St. Trond".

We always agreed that in case of no good aletrnate landing field if hit ,we
would just head back West and try to get as close to our lines as possible and
make our way back home by what ever means. But as we flew into Germany I always
was plotting emergency fields in case we got hit. Switzerland or Sweden was
never remotely a consideration. I think if any of our crew ever suggested such
a thing, we would have gotten rid of him.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

In article zQeUb.403484$ts4.258352@pd7tw3no, Brian Colwell
writes
snip

I guess you know he was shot down and spent time in a POW camp, And in one
of the very few examples of compassion during WW2 ( and maybe respect) The
Germans gave safe passage to an RAF plane to drop a pair of artificial legs,
as his had been damaged when he baled out !

Regards, BMC

AFAIK the RAF refused the offer of safe passage, partly because it would
have been a propaganda coup for Goebbels, and dropped his new legs
during a routine bombing raid.

Bader always maintained he was involved in a collision, rather than
being shot down, but then he would have, wouldn't he?
--
Peter

Ying tong iddle-i po!

Subject: New Story on my Website
From: Peter Twydell
Date: 2/11/04 12:57 PM Pacific Standard Time

ader always maintained he was involved in a collision, rather than
being shot down, but then he would have, wouldn't he?
--
Peter

I believe him. He earned the right to be beleived. The hard way.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer