If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
Roger that Captain. The confusion came from my confusing the term
"Pilot" with "Naval Aviator". I ignorantly assumed the two terms were interchangeable, but I now know I was incorrect. Thanks for the clarification. Take care. "Jake Donovan" wrote in message news:6UcRa.16144$AD3.3690@lakeread04... MPower, I was going to let the originator decide where to take this but you need to be corrected. After contacting all organizations that have anything to do with Naval Aviation training and the SEALS, there are NO, I repeat NO enlisted NAVAL AVIATORS in the Navy. The people you are referring to were trained for special missions in private aircraft and do not hold a 13XX designator. They may be pilots who are in the Navy, but they are NOT Naval Aviators nor can they fly as Pilot in Command of any Naval Aircraft without a designated Naval Aviator in a dual controlled aircraft. They can not LOG anytime in a Naval Aircraft, even if they get stick time. And to clear another point up, the original person who was "one of 11 enlisted pilots" who just retired, was trained through this program and was not a NAVAL AVIATOR. He was a private pilot. Yes, his service jacket was looked at. Being a pilot and being a Naval Aviator are not the same. In the same breath, a 1310 designated Naval Aviator who does not hold a Private Pilot Certificate can not fly solo in a privately owned Cessna 172 legally. This should tie-up all loose ends. JD "M Power" wrote in message om... "Doug \"Woody\" and Erin Beal" wrote in message ... On 7/15/03 9:28 PM, in article , "M Power" wrote: You are incorrect Captain. I'm active duty Navy as well, and trust me when I tell you that there are a few SEALs that are presently qualified as Naval Aviators. They do not fly any of the aircraft that you mentioned below. They only fly non-military aircraft. Where they are stationed does not matter. But they are indeed qualified. Take care. Mpower... Do they actually wear the gold wings? This has been a point of contention in the thread. --Woody Woody - I wish I could answer that, but none of the guys I know wear their wings. I really don't know what they would wear. |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
LOL! Ain't that the truth!
JD "Ogden Johnson III" wrote in message ... "Jake Donovan" wrote: [Snip tie-up of loose ends.] This should tie-up all loose ends. Erm. Have you forgotten where you are posting, Jake? This is the Usenet. *Nothing* can tie up all loose ends on the Usenet. There will always be one "But my best friend's uncle's third-cousin-twice- removed's wife saw the sun rise in the West on May 2, 1904. So there!" OJ III [Anyone for a go-around at one of s.m.n's favorites, the 100-knot carrier?] |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
"Pechs1" wrote...
Sid- I know of one plowback/retread who eventually had command of an operational squadron, the rag, got his deep draft, and finally a wing. name please?? Different one, but Don Barbaree (SERGRAD VT-25 ca 1979) was CO of Kitty Hawk just prior to Iraqi Freedom. Currently acting COMOPTEVFOR. |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
"Pechs1" wrote...
Sid- I know of one plowback/retread who eventually had command of an operational squadron, the rag, got his deep draft, and finally a wing. name please?? Different one, but Don Barbaree (SERGRAD VT-25 ca 1979) was CO of Kitty Hawk just prior to Iraqi Freedom. Currently acting COMOPTEVFOR. |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
"Robert Moore" wrote in message . 8... How did he meet the FAA requirement of "rated in type" in order to log the time as "pilot flight time"? Rated-in-type is a requirement for all aircraft over 12'500# and jet aircraft. I'll ask him when I get a chance. I know he never attempted to apply those hours, so they never received FAA scrutiny. Maybe, he was uninformed and it was a useless effort. It did help him pass the time while hitching patrol rides to keep his flight pay. Please educate me in a number of areas. There are a number of questions which the FAA has not answered consistently over the last thirty years. With regards to Naval Aviators, the FAA has allowed Navy pilots, with proper documentation, to apply hours acquired when the pilot didn't have a license of any sort. In these cases, even the PIC wasn't rated in-type at the time he collected and logged his military hours. That said, are military aircraft type-rated? That would answer a number of questions. The question of co-pilot time (SIC) is even more confusing. The FAA uses aircraft certification to determine if co-pilot time can be logged. If the certified aircraft requires two pilots, SIC time can be logged. If the certified aircraft does not require two pilots, PIC time can be traded back and forth, but no SIC time can be logged. If type-rating is required, these hours can't be logged. An interesting case is the S-3. For a number of years, NFO's logged SIC time, privately. A number of these NFO got the FAA and airlines to accept the time. In 1988, NAVAIR started requiring that this time be kept formally. Which leads to the next question, does SIC time have to be logged while rated-in-type? |
#36
|
|||
|
|||
"Robert Moore" wrote in message . 8... How did he meet the FAA requirement of "rated in type" in order to log the time as "pilot flight time"? Rated-in-type is a requirement for all aircraft over 12'500# and jet aircraft. My initial reply read like word soup, so I'll try again. How did the FAA accept military time when the military pilot lacked a license, let alone a type-rating? If you fly an aircraft that requires a type-rating, you need to be type-rated. Are military aircraft type-rated? If they aren't, how does that affect logging? What can be done retroactively? It seems that the FAA is clearer explaining when you CAN log time that describing when you CAN'T. I guess this is what leads to inconsistent interpretations. I know the Navy has made a number of things easier for pilots that are planning a post-Naval career with the airlines. What was the situation in the sixties and seventies? I recall a number of funny stories about how NFO's got their ratings. |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
"C.D. Damron" wrote in
How did the FAA accept military time when the military pilot lacked a license, let alone a type-rating? FAR 61.73 deals more with getting an FAA certificate than logging flight time, but it does explain some of the thinking. Section 61.73: Military pilots or former military pilots: Special rules. (a) General. Except for a rated military pilot or former rated military pilot who has been removed from flying status for lack of proficiency, or because of disciplinary action involving aircraft operations, a rated military pilot or former rated military pilot who meets the applicable requirements of this section may apply, on the basis of his or her military training, for: (1) A commercial pilot certificate; (2) An aircraft rating in the category and class of aircraft for which that military pilot is qualified; (3) An instrument rating with the appropriate aircraft rating for which that military pilot is qualified; or (4) A type rating, if appropriate. (b) Military pilots on active flying status within the past 12 months. A rated military pilot or former rated military pilot who has been on active flying status within the 12 months before applying must: (1) Pass a knowledge test on the appropriate parts of this chapter that apply to pilot privileges and limitations, air traffic and general operating rules, and accident reporting rules; (2) Present documentation showing compliance with the requirements of paragraph (d) of this section for at least one aircraft category rating; and (3) Present documentation showing that the applicant is or was, at any time during the 12 calendar months before the month of application -- (i) A rated military pilot on active flying status in an armed force of the United States; or (ii) A rated military pilot of an armed force of a foreign contracting State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation, assigned to pilot duties (other than flight training) with an armed force of the United States and holds, at the time of application, a current civil pilot license issued by that contracting State authorizing at least the privileges of the pilot certificate sought. (c) Military pilots not on active flying status during the 12 calendar months before the month of application. A rated military pilot or former rated military pilot who has not been on active flying status within the 12 calendar months before the month of application must: (1) Pass the appropriate knowledge and practical tests prescribed in this part for the certificate or rating sought; and (2) Present documentation showing that the applicant was, before the beginning of the 12th calendar month before the month of application, a rated military pilot as prescribed by paragraph (b) (3)(i) or paragraph (b)(3)(ii) of this section. (d) Aircraft category, class, and type ratings. A rated military pilot or former rated military pilot who applies for an aircraft category, class, or type rating, if applicable, is issued that rating at the commercial pilot certificate level if the pilot presents documentary evidence that shows satisfactory accomplishment of: (1) An official U.S. military pilot check and instrument proficiency check in that aircraft category, class, or type, if applicable, as pilot in command during the 12 calendar months before the month of application; (2) At least 10 hours of pilot-in-command time in that aircraft category, class, or type, if applicable, during the 12 calendar months before the month of application; or (3) An FAA practical test in that aircraft after -- (i) Meeting the requirements of paragraphs (b)(1) and (b)(2) of this section; and (ii) Having received an endorsement from an authorized instructor who certifies that the pilot is proficient to take the required practical test, and that endorsement is made within the 60-day period preceding the date of the practical test. (e) Instrument rating. A rated military pilot or former rated military pilot who applies for an airplane instrument rating, a helicopter instrument rating, or a powered-lift instrument rating to be added to his or her commercial pilot certificate may apply for an instrument rating if the pilot has, within the 12 calendar months preceding the month of application: (1) Passed an instrument proficiency check by a U.S. Armed Force in the aircraft category for the instrument rating sought; and (2) Received authorization from a U.S. Armed Force to conduct IFR flights on Federal airways in that aircraft category and class for the instrument rating sought. (f) Aircraft type rating. An aircraft type rating is issued only for aircraft types that the Administrator has certificated for civil operations. (g) Aircraft type rating placed on an airline transport pilot certificate. A rated military pilot or former rated military pilot who holds an airline transport pilot certificate and who requests an aircraft type rating to be placed on that person's airline transport pilot certificate may be issued that aircraft type rating at the airline transport pilot certificate level, provided that person: (1) Holds a category and class rating for that type of aircraft at the airline transport pilot certificate level; and (2) Passed an official U.S. military pilot check and instrument proficiency check in that type of aircraft as pilot in command during the 12 calendar months before the month of application. (h) Evidentiary documents. The following documents are satisfactory evidence for the purposes indicated: (1) An official identification card issued to the pilot by an armed force may be used to demonstrate membership in the armed forces. (2) An original or a copy of a certificate of discharge or release may be used to demonstrate discharge or release from an armed force or former membership in an armed force. (3) Current or previous status as a rated military pilot with a U.S. Armed Force may be demonstrated by -- (i) An official U.S. Armed Force order to flight status as a military pilot; (ii) An official U.S. Armed Force form or logbook showing military pilot status; or (iii) An official order showing that the rated military pilot graduated from a U.S. military pilot school and received a rating as a military pilot. (4) A certified U.S. Armed Force logbook or an appropriate official U.S. Armed Force form or summary may be used to demonstrate flight time in military aircraft as a member of a U.S. Armed Force. (5) An official U.S. Armed Force record of a military checkout as pilot in command may be used to demonstrate pilot in command status. (6) A current instrument grade slip that is issued by a U.S. Armed Force, or an official record of satisfactory accomplishment of an instrument proficiency check during the 12 calendar months preceding the month of the application may be used to demonstrate instrument pilot qualification. |
#38
|
|||
|
|||
"Pechs1" wrote...
Sid- I know of one plowback/retread who eventually had command of an operational squadron, the rag, got his deep draft, and finally a wing. name please?? Different one, but Don Barbaree (SERGRAD VT-25 ca 1979) was CO of Kitty Hawk just prior to Iraqi Freedom. Currently acting COMOPTEVFOR. |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
Hmmm? I've known some Naval Aviators that can't fly either....but thats
another story! Tom Clarke CDR USN(Ret) Ops specialist/C130 IP VX-20 (One of those civilian pilots that fly Navy aircraft There are a bunch of us here at Pax (TPS, VX-20), I used to fly for JB here at VX-20) Jake Donovan wrote: LOL! Ain't that the truth! JD "Ogden Johnson III" wrote in message ... "Jake Donovan" wrote: [Snip tie-up of loose ends.] This should tie-up all loose ends. Erm. Have you forgotten where you are posting, Jake? This is the Usenet. *Nothing* can tie up all loose ends on the Usenet. There will always be one "But my best friend's uncle's third-cousin-twice- removed's wife saw the sun rise in the West on May 2, 1904. So there!" OJ III [Anyone for a go-around at one of s.m.n's favorites, the 100-knot carrier?] |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
"C.D. Damron" wrote in message news:XOnRa.79707$ye4.59310@sccrnsc01... Snip I know the Navy has made a number of things easier for pilots that are planning a post-Naval career with the airlines. What was the situation in the sixties and seventies? I recall a number of funny stories about how NFO's got their ratings. I have been cruising the ICW the last week so I haven't been on the board in a while. In the early 60's there weren't very many airline pilots or management people without military training/experience. The FAA (Federal Aviation Agency in those days) hadn't been around very many years, and IIRC it was the CAA (Civilian Aviation Agency) until 1958 of so. Acceptance of military flight time was a lot less informal, and maybe not quite as accurate as it should have been. It was still to a large extent a "good Ol'boy network". Qualifications were often exaggerated, to say the least. Didn't really concern me as I had no desire to fly for the airlines. I knew of one reserve F-8 driver (and there was more than one, not just in F-8's) that made the switch to a multi-engine commercial airline seat, in a matter of just a few months, in the mid 60's. I guess he figured it was better drawing the civilian big bucks, than getting shot at. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
AOPA Stall/Spin Study -- Stowell's Review (8,000 words) | Rich Stowell | Aerobatics | 28 | January 2nd 09 02:26 PM |
DCPilots for Washington, DC area pilots | Bill | Instrument Flight Rules | 3 | June 5th 04 12:32 AM |
Bush Pilots Fly-In. South Africa. | Bush Air | Home Built | 0 | May 25th 04 06:18 AM |
[OT] USA - TSA Obstructing Armed Pilots? | No Spam! | Military Aviation | 120 | January 27th 04 10:19 AM |
USAF = US Amphetamine Fools | RT | Military Aviation | 104 | September 25th 03 03:17 PM |