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#31
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Dude, you're NOT getting it!!!
The engines are worn out! The engines will not make manufacturer's TBO due to the way they are used. They are constantly cycled between full throttle to idle every minute of an aerobatic sequence for as long as the pilot practices or competes. Same question applies as that is what TBO is. Perhaps I should have said that the engines need to be rebuilt after 600-700 hours. |
#32
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Morgans wrote:
True, but what does that have to do with why pilots flying aerobatics are required to wear parachutes? Are you saying this is not needed, because it is just as safe as other GA? In the country where I fly it's not required. I've never understood why it is in the USA. (Don't get me wrong: I don't say that it's a bad idea to wear one.) Stefan |
#33
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"Stefan" wrote in message ... Morgans wrote: Statistically, aerobatics is even safer than "normal" flight. Seriously, I can't see how that could be true. The same things that a regular flight can still happen, and added to that, sometimes the wing is over stressed and folds, or there is spacial disoreintation, and flight finds ground, or...... Obviously you don't fly aerobatics yourself. True, but what does that have to do with why pilots flying aerobatics are required to wear parachutes? Are you saying this is not needed, because it is just as safe as other GA? |
#34
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On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 17:44:02 GMT, "ShawnD2112"
wrote: Sure, I understand that part, but where is there a Lycoming or FAA reference that says an engine installed in an aerobatic engine has a shorter TBO? The reason I ask is that, to my knowledge, all the Pitts drivers here in the UK are operating on 1500 or so hours (mine's so short of that mark as to not have to even worry about it for a while yet). No one has ever mentioned a shorter TBO requirement and, even with binary throttle application like you're talking about, I don't hear of too many of my colleagues having to do any more maintenance than anyone else. http://www.lycoming.textron.com/supp...s/SI1009AR.pdf Look at any "A" engine and read note 6 Appears that 1400 hours is the maximum recommended TBO TC |
#35
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http://www.lycoming.textron.com/supp...Publications/s
erviceInstructions/SI1009AR.pdf Look at any "A" engine and read note 6 6. The reliability and service life of engines can be detrimentally affected if they are repeatedly operated at alternating high and low power applications which cause extreme changes in cylinder temperatures. Flight maneuvers which cause engine overspeed also contribute to abnormal wear characteristics that tend to shorten engine life. These factors must be considered to establish TBO of aerobatic engines; therefore it is the responsibility of the operator to determine the percentage of time the engine is used for aerobatics and establish his own TBO. The maximum recommended is the time specified in this instruction. |
#36
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"Morgans" wrote in message ... "Stefan" wrote in message ... Morgans wrote: Statistically, aerobatics is even safer than "normal" flight. Seriously, I can't see how that could be true. The same things that a regular flight can still happen, and added to that, sometimes the wing is over stressed and folds, or there is spacial disoreintation, and flight finds ground, or...... Obviously you don't fly aerobatics yourself. True, but what does that have to do with why pilots flying aerobatics are required to wear parachutes? Are you saying this is not needed, because it is just as safe as other GA? It is an FAA regulation and like many FAA regulations it makes no sense. |
#37
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On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:18:46 GMT, john smith wrote:
Is it? Why would it be shorter than any other engine TBO? Do you have a reference? If my engine's running out, I'd like to read up on it and find out what's different. Yes, hundreds of owners who fly competition aerobatics. In competition aerobatics you are constantly and repeatedly going from full throttle to idle. There is no in between setting. The only time you fly at a given power setting for any length of time is when you are flying from one contest to another. Also maneuvers such as snap rolls produce some pretty stong forces on the front seal and bearings when done at full power. That prop is like a big gyroscope. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#38
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Dude, the thing I'm not getting is your assertion about the engine life and
condition because the experience I'm having with my own engine and those of my Pitts colleagues here in the UK is not the same. Engines are making it to 1500 hours and are not worn out at 500 or even 750 hours. If you've got some genuine information regarding the life of the engine, I'm interested to know it. If you don't, you're just speculating on hearsay. Shawn "john smith" wrote in message ... Dude, you're NOT getting it!!! The engines are worn out! The engines will not make manufacturer's TBO due to the way they are used. They are constantly cycled between full throttle to idle every minute of an aerobatic sequence for as long as the pilot practices or competes. Same question applies as that is what TBO is. Perhaps I should have said that the engines need to be rebuilt after 600-700 hours. |
#39
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That's absolutely true, especially with metal props. Guys with metal props
have to really watch their gyros and keep a close eye on the seals. Shawn "Roger" wrote in message ... On Wed, 07 Sep 2005 12:18:46 GMT, john smith wrote: Is it? Why would it be shorter than any other engine TBO? Do you have a reference? If my engine's running out, I'd like to read up on it and find out what's different. Yes, hundreds of owners who fly competition aerobatics. In competition aerobatics you are constantly and repeatedly going from full throttle to idle. There is no in between setting. The only time you fly at a given power setting for any length of time is when you are flying from one contest to another. Also maneuvers such as snap rolls produce some pretty stong forces on the front seal and bearings when done at full power. That prop is like a big gyroscope. Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member) (N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair) www.rogerhalstead.com |
#40
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Which is what I thought it was, John. Thanks. Our learned colleague
mentioned something around 600 hour TBO and I was looking for some reference to that number in case I'd missed something that had been published recently. Cheers, Shawn "john smith" wrote in message ... http://www.lycoming.textron.com/supp...Publications/s erviceInstructions/SI1009AR.pdf Look at any "A" engine and read note 6 6. The reliability and service life of engines can be detrimentally affected if they are repeatedly operated at alternating high and low power applications which cause extreme changes in cylinder temperatures. Flight maneuvers which cause engine overspeed also contribute to abnormal wear characteristics that tend to shorten engine life. These factors must be considered to establish TBO of aerobatic engines; therefore it is the responsibility of the operator to determine the percentage of time the engine is used for aerobatics and establish his own TBO. The maximum recommended is the time specified in this instruction. |
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