Club Class Nationals

On Sep 22, 5:42*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Sep 22, 4:33*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:





I fly Sports Class as my Duo Discus is not competitive in any FAI class
contest held in the Western US.

This is a serious *concern. The only real objection I've heard to club
class is that if we destroy sports class by eating out the middle,
people like yourself have nowhere to go. Same for the sparrowhawk,
silent, and other gliders "below" club class. The R5S club contests
have been really great efforts, but we're still seeing 6 gliders in
sports and 7 in club (2010) which is pretty marginal. *The 6 gliders
in sports is as crucial a number as the 7 in club. It would be great
to see more regions try this and see if it works.

If all we do is subdivide the existing classes, we end up with tiny
contests. The club class advocates are arguing, I think, that changing
the US team selection rules or printing up a separate scoresheet will
bring tens of new pilots out who do not come out to sports contests
now. Maybe. It didn't work for the PW5s. *Boy, it would be nice to see
really big enthusiasm at a regional level, or in response to the past
US team selection restrictions, before jumping into that pond again.

Participation would solve everything. But the trend is the opposite.
Standards seem to draw 10-15, 15 meter seems to draw 25-30, open and
PW5 have been below 10 for a long time. *Maybe we should be discussing
how to merge classes, not to separate them. Or all out getting more
people to show up at contests, any contests!

John Cochran

John, you seem to forget that the first Club Class contest in Cordele
had 17 pilots. I personally did not go for the second contest because
like others I lost hope that the Club Class would ever become reality
in the U.S. During the meeting with "the powers" at Cordele we did not
hear good things to hope for a bright future.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What exactly was said by "the powers" at this first Cordele Club Class
contest that was so negative to the concept before the first contest
was even finished???

It would be nice to know who exactly is blocking the club class...

Because from my perspective I know of at least 6+ former US Team -
Club Class pilos who would like to fly a US Club Class Nationals. Then
add to it the support you can glean from these exchanges on ras. Then
add the people who are either lurking here or are not involved in this
discussion on ras. And what do we come up with... a much better
potential (because, I admit fully, that is all it is until the first
Club Class Nationals is called) turnout than any recent open class,
and better than even standard class lately.

And there is no support for the class? And further, the pilots are not
of high enough caliber?

Call me crazy, but I would love to slug it out with only names like
Franke, Giltner, Stevenson, Faris, Berry and after a good race these
guys could do pretty well at a WGC.

Tim EY

On Sep 22, 10:59*pm, Tim wrote:
On Sep 22, 5:42*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:





On Sep 22, 4:33*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

I fly Sports Class as my Duo Discus is not competitive in any FAI class
contest held in the Western US.

This is a serious *concern. The only real objection I've heard to club
class is that if we destroy sports class by eating out the middle,
people like yourself have nowhere to go. Same for the sparrowhawk,
silent, and other gliders "below" club class. The R5S club contests
have been really great efforts, but we're still seeing 6 gliders in
sports and 7 in club (2010) which is pretty marginal. *The 6 gliders
in sports is as crucial a number as the 7 in club. It would be great
to see more regions try this and see if it works.

If all we do is subdivide the existing classes, we end up with tiny
contests. The club class advocates are arguing, I think, that changing
the US team selection rules or printing up a separate scoresheet will
bring tens of new pilots out who do not come out to sports contests
now. Maybe. It didn't work for the PW5s. *Boy, it would be nice to see
really big enthusiasm at a regional level, or in response to the past
US team selection restrictions, before jumping into that pond again.

Participation would solve everything. But the trend is the opposite.
Standards seem to draw 10-15, 15 meter seems to draw 25-30, open and
PW5 have been below 10 for a long time. *Maybe we should be discussing
how to merge classes, not to separate them. Or all out getting more
people to show up at contests, any contests!

John Cochran

John, you seem to forget that the first Club Class contest in Cordele
had 17 pilots. I personally did not go for the second contest because
like others I lost hope that the Club Class would ever become reality
in the U.S. During the meeting with "the powers" at Cordele we did not
hear good things to hope for a bright future.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What exactly was said by "the powers" at this first Cordele Club Class
contest that was so negative to the concept before the first contest
was even finished???

It would be nice to know who exactly is blocking the club class...

Because from my perspective I know of at least 6+ former US Team -
Club Class pilos who would like to fly a US Club Class Nationals. Then
add to it the support you can glean from these exchanges on ras. Then
add the people who are either lurking here or are not involved in this
discussion on ras. And what do we come up with... a much better
potential (because, I admit fully, that is all it is until the first
Club Class Nationals is called) turnout than any recent open class,
and better than even standard class lately.

And there is no support for the class? And further, the pilots are not
of high enough caliber?

Call me crazy, but I would love to slug it out with only names like
Franke, Giltner, Stevenson, Faris, Berry and after a good race these
guys could do pretty well at a WGC.

Tim EY

Tim, I don't think it would be beneficial to the discussion to recount
negatives we heard in Cordele and what was said by "the powers" on
r.a.s shortly after that.

Recently, here on r.a.s, I heard a lot of good words from John C. He
essentially stated that Club Class Nationals can be organized even
next year if someone steps up to it.
I think this would be a great opportunity. Maybe as a part of Sprots
Class Nationals maybe separately.

I sold my SZD-55-1 since I did not believe a change was coming and I
bought an ASG-29 because I could afford it. I still support the Club
Class even though it seems it could be counter productive for me.
Well, principals, conviction are more important than anything else. I
may even borrow a glider to fly in a Club Class contest.

I think someone should take the offer John made here on r.a.s and
organize Club Class Nationals next year.

Let's move beyond arguing...

On Sep 22, 10:59*pm, Tim wrote:
On Sep 22, 5:42*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:





On Sep 22, 4:33*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:

I fly Sports Class as my Duo Discus is not competitive in any FAI class
contest held in the Western US.

This is a serious *concern. The only real objection I've heard to club
class is that if we destroy sports class by eating out the middle,
people like yourself have nowhere to go. Same for the sparrowhawk,
silent, and other gliders "below" club class. The R5S club contests
have been really great efforts, but we're still seeing 6 gliders in
sports and 7 in club (2010) which is pretty marginal. *The 6 gliders
in sports is as crucial a number as the 7 in club. It would be great
to see more regions try this and see if it works.

If all we do is subdivide the existing classes, we end up with tiny
contests. The club class advocates are arguing, I think, that changing
the US team selection rules or printing up a separate scoresheet will
bring tens of new pilots out who do not come out to sports contests
now. Maybe. It didn't work for the PW5s. *Boy, it would be nice to see
really big enthusiasm at a regional level, or in response to the past
US team selection restrictions, before jumping into that pond again.

Participation would solve everything. But the trend is the opposite.
Standards seem to draw 10-15, 15 meter seems to draw 25-30, open and
PW5 have been below 10 for a long time. *Maybe we should be discussing
how to merge classes, not to separate them. Or all out getting more
people to show up at contests, any contests!

John Cochran

John, you seem to forget that the first Club Class contest in Cordele
had 17 pilots. I personally did not go for the second contest because
like others I lost hope that the Club Class would ever become reality
in the U.S. During the meeting with "the powers" at Cordele we did not
hear good things to hope for a bright future.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

What exactly was said by "the powers" at this first Cordele Club Class
contest that was so negative to the concept before the first contest
was even finished???

It would be nice to know who exactly is blocking the club class...

Because from my perspective I know of at least 6+ former US Team -
Club Class pilos who would like to fly a US Club Class Nationals. Then
add to it the support you can glean from these exchanges on ras. Then
add the people who are either lurking here or are not involved in this
discussion on ras. And what do we come up with... a much better
potential (because, I admit fully, that is all it is until the first
Club Class Nationals is called) turnout than any recent open class,
and better than even standard class lately.

And there is no support for the class? And further, the pilots are not
of high enough caliber?

Call me crazy, but I would love to slug it out with only names like
Franke, Giltner, Stevenson, Faris, Berry and after a good race these
guys could do pretty well at a WGC.

Tim EY

Tim, I don't think it would be beneficial to the discussion to
recount
negatives we heard in Cordele and what was said by "the powers" on
r.a.s shortly after that.
Recently, here on r.a.s, I heard a lot of good words from John C. He
essentially stated that Club Class Nationals can be organized even
next year if someone steps up to it.
I think this would be a great opportunity. Maybe as a part of Sprots
Class Nationals maybe separately.
I sold my SZD-55-1 since I did not believe a change was coming. I
still support the Club
Class even though it seems it could be counter productive for me
considering the glider I own now.
Well, principals, conviction are more important than anything else. I
may even borrow a glider to fly in a Club Class contest.
I think someone should take the offer John made here on r.a.s and
organize Club Class Nationals next year.
Let's move beyond arguing...

On Sep 22, 6:42*pm, Andrzej Kobus wrote:
On Sep 22, 4:33*pm, John Cochrane
wrote:



I fly Sports Class as my Duo Discus is not competitive in any FAI class
contest held in the Western US.

This is a serious *concern. The only real objection I've heard to club
class is that if we destroy sports class by eating out the middle,
people like yourself have nowhere to go. Same for the sparrowhawk,
silent, and other gliders "below" club class. The R5S club contests
have been really great efforts, but we're still seeing 6 gliders in
sports and 7 in club (2010) which is pretty marginal. *The 6 gliders
in sports is as crucial a number as the 7 in club. It would be great
to see more regions try this and see if it works.

If all we do is subdivide the existing classes, we end up with tiny
contests. The club class advocates are arguing, I think, that changing
the US team selection rules or printing up a separate scoresheet will
bring tens of new pilots out who do not come out to sports contests
now. Maybe. It didn't work for the PW5s. *Boy, it would be nice to see
really big enthusiasm at a regional level, or in response to the past
US team selection restrictions, before jumping into that pond again.

Participation would solve everything. But the trend is the opposite.
Standards seem to draw 10-15, 15 meter seems to draw 25-30, open and
PW5 have been below 10 for a long time. *Maybe we should be discussing
how to merge classes, not to separate them. Or all out getting more
people to show up at contests, any contests!

John Cochran

John, you seem to forget that the first Club Class contest in Cordele
had 17 pilots. I personally did not go for the second contest because
like others I lost hope that the Club Class would ever become reality
in the U.S. During the meeting with "the powers" at Cordele we did not
hear good things to hope for a bright future.

Andrzej, it's too bad you felt that way at that meeting. What I
heard
was an interest in the class from the rules committee, and a
willingness
to allow the experiment to continue. Club class as the path to the
WGC
was always going to be a long term issue, and only will happen with
good participation at a number of contests.

The turnout at 2009 Cordele was great, and included people that had
come a long way to participate. This year's contests have had lighter
turnout
all around (the total club plus sports at R5S was less than 17). Even
R4S
currently going on has far less thnt maximum turnout, so that says
to me that people just aren't flying contests this year. Personally,
I didn't fly one because of unfamiliarity with my new plane, but I'll
fly next year.

Where do we go from here? I'm sure if someone was willing and
able to run a national contest in club class (perhaps in tandem
with another low attendance class like World, Open, or even
Standard) the RC would grant a waiver for it. You wouldn't earn
a WGC slot (yet), but you could earn 100 rating points for winning
(which the 1-26 winner does). Good participation would show the
viability of the class.

-- Matt

-- Matt

Let me rephrase that; I believe a STD cirrus, asw-15 or libelle will
give you more bang for HALF THE PRICE!!! so why buy one???