No FLARM log equals Unsafe Operation? (USA)

Martin Gregorie wrote: “Can you put numbers on the required
separation?” [snip]


Martin, hi.

My answer is a bit digital, unfortunately. Keeping the Flarm GPS
aerial on top of the instrument panel coaming kept it within about 1
foot, or 30 cm, of the Volkslogger, which seemed to be too close.

Other than sticking it on the canopy, which I did not think a good
idea, the only other place was on the headrest which I suppose is 2 or
3 feet from the Volkslogger, and everything works okay when it is
there.

500mm might be far enough, I suppose, if Redbox is that similar to the
Swiss Flarm – which I don’t know. I also don’t know how
representative was my experience.


Hope that helps, but I guess not much!

Regards - Chris

snip
Is an artificial horizon prohibited? *Most people would consider that a
safety item in the event you unexpectedly find yourself in IMC. *Safety
items should not be prohibited by any contest rules.

snip
Yes, an artificial horizon is prohibited, the thinking being that if
you have it you are more likely yourself to get in a situation where
you need it. Or worse yet might intentionlly use it to climb into a
cloud.


6.6 Restricted Equipment
6.6.1 Each sailplane is prohibited from carrying any instrument which:
• Permits flight without reference to the ground.

Checking the PowerFLARM website, the physical size of the unit raises
some concerns for both temporary (rental) and permanent
installations. The unit is almost 4 inches wide by 1.8" high, and
about 4 inches deep. This is by no means a radar detector sized gizmo
like the PCAS. It's a big box.

RENTAL INSTALLATION: I am not sure I have room to velcro this unit on
my glare shield and still close the canopy. 2 inches of vertical
clearance when offset from the centerline by 2 inches (1/2 the width
of the unit) may be asking a lot from most cockpits. It would also
mean removing my flip chart style checklist (thank you Kemp) and would
block the view of my compass. Also, it would obscure a good portion
of the view straight ahead, where I scan for head-on collisions... It
would be mounted right in front of my Transponder antenna, and my GPS
antenna, both residing on top of the glare shield, possibly causing RF
issues?. FInally, I am not sure how I feel about this undoubtedly
heavy, potential projectile velcroed to the dash (no weight was listed
on the PowerFlarm website) in the event of turbulence or impact.

PANEL INSTALLATION: The unit is quite wide, and would probably wipe
out at least two instruments currently on my panel. I would have to
re-do the entire panel to make this install work. That makes the
whole thing a lot less attractive. If PowerFLARM wants wide adoption
in the glider community, they might want to re-consider the form
factor of their device. The display appears to be small, but there is
a gigantic knob on the front panel next to it, making the unit very
wide. If the form factor was such that I could remove my 57mm
transponder and pop in the PowerFLARM into that hole, then add a new
headless transponder somewhere, That would be great!

Suggestion: Why not have someone (SSA?, FLARM Fund?, PowerFLARM?)
make a free cardboard box the size of the proposed PowerFLARM that
could be mailed out to anyone that wanted it, especially contest
pilots, to see how many cockpits/pilots could actually accommodate the
unit if it were made available as a rental.

Pleas note: I want this technology in my glider, but I am not sure
the current embodiment will work for me.

On Oct 11, 4:41*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
Checking the PowerFLARM website, the physical size of the unit raises
some concerns for both temporary (rental) and permanent
installations. *The unit is almost 4 inches wide by 1.8" high, and
about 4 inches deep. *This is by no means a radar detector sized gizmo
like the PCAS. *It's a big box.

RENTAL INSTALLATION: *I am not sure I have room to velcro this unit on
my glare shield and still close the canopy. 2 inches of vertical
clearance when offset from the centerline by 2 inches (1/2 the width
of the unit) may be asking a lot from most cockpits. * It would also
mean removing my flip chart style checklist (thank you Kemp) and would
block the view of my compass. *Also, it would obscure a good portion
of the view straight ahead, where I scan for head-on collisions... *It
would be mounted right in front of my Transponder antenna, and my GPS
antenna, both residing on top of the glare shield, possibly causing RF
issues?. *FInally, I am not sure how I feel about this undoubtedly
heavy, potential projectile velcroed to the dash (no weight was listed
on the PowerFlarm website) in the event of turbulence or impact.

PANEL INSTALLATION: The unit is quite wide, and would probably wipe
out at least two instruments currently on my panel. *I would have to
re-do the entire panel to make this install work. *That makes the
whole thing a lot less attractive. *If PowerFLARM wants wide adoption
in the glider community, they might want to re-consider the form
factor of their device. The display appears to be small, but there is
a gigantic knob on the front panel next to it, making the unit very
wide. If the form factor was such that I could remove my 57mm
transponder and pop in the PowerFLARM into that hole, then add a new
headless transponder somewhere, *That would be great!

Suggestion: *Why not have someone (SSA?, FLARM Fund?, PowerFLARM?)
make a free cardboard box the size of the proposed PowerFLARM that
could be mailed out to anyone that wanted it, especially contest
pilots, to see how many cockpits/pilots could actually accommodate the
unit if it were made available as a rental.

Pleas note: *I want this technology in my glider, but I am not sure
the current embodiment will work for me.

You're in luck on both counts. Darryl Ramm made a downloadable PDF
file that folds up into a life size paper box the same size as the
PowerFLARM.
There will also be a "brick" installation available for the PowerFLARM
that
has a remote radio unit and a round radar-type display that fits in a
standard
57mm cutout. Poke around on the butterfly.aero web site for the
displays,
or check out Bill Elliot's install of FLARM shown on the
gliderpilot.org web site.

-- Matt

On Oct 11, 1:41*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
Checking the PowerFLARM website, the physical size of the unit raises
some concerns for both temporary (rental) and permanent
installations. *The unit is almost 4 inches wide by 1.8" high, and
about 4 inches deep. *This is by no means a radar detector sized gizmo
like the PCAS. *It's a big box.

RENTAL INSTALLATION: *I am not sure I have room to velcro this unit on
my glare shield and still close the canopy. 2 inches of vertical
clearance when offset from the centerline by 2 inches (1/2 the width
of the unit) may be asking a lot from most cockpits. * It would also
mean removing my flip chart style checklist (thank you Kemp) and would
block the view of my compass. *Also, it would obscure a good portion
of the view straight ahead, where I scan for head-on collisions... *It
would be mounted right in front of my Transponder antenna, and my GPS
antenna, both residing on top of the glare shield, possibly causing RF
issues?. *FInally, I am not sure how I feel about this undoubtedly
heavy, potential projectile velcroed to the dash (no weight was listed
on the PowerFlarm website) in the event of turbulence or impact.

PANEL INSTALLATION: The unit is quite wide, and would probably wipe
out at least two instruments currently on my panel. *I would have to
re-do the entire panel to make this install work. *That makes the
whole thing a lot less attractive. *If PowerFLARM wants wide adoption
in the glider community, they might want to re-consider the form
factor of their device. The display appears to be small, but there is
a gigantic knob on the front panel next to it, making the unit very
wide. If the form factor was such that I could remove my 57mm
transponder and pop in the PowerFLARM into that hole, then add a new
headless transponder somewhere, *That would be great!

Suggestion: *Why not have someone (SSA?, FLARM Fund?, PowerFLARM?)
make a free cardboard box the size of the proposed PowerFLARM that
could be mailed out to anyone that wanted it, especially contest
pilots, to see how many cockpits/pilots could actually accommodate the
unit if it were made available as a rental.

Like Matt mentioned, I did that already...

http://www.darryl-ramm.com/2010/08/b...m-paper-model/

Pleas note: *I want this technology in my glider, but I am not sure
the current embodiment will work for me.

Please no complaining about needing to redo the whole panel in your
new Ventus toy. It's like the really pretty girl complaining how tough
it is to be popular. When you buy a glider you are *supposed* to redo
the entire panel, man up, its a rite of passage.

But you really should have no problem finding space for it in your
Ventus thingy. It either goes on top of the glareshield or you can
mount the headless brick behind the panel.

And Matt, I hope to see you at the PASCO Safety Seminar on October
30th. Urs Rothacher CEO of FLARM will be speaking. So you can have any
remaining questions answered. And the PowerFLARM dealers attending can
follow up with you for your order :-)

Darryl

On Oct 11, 2:11*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:
On Oct 11, 1:41*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:





Checking the PowerFLARM website, the physical size of the unit raises
some concerns for both temporary (rental) and permanent
installations. *The unit is almost 4 inches wide by 1.8" high, and
about 4 inches deep. *This is by no means a radar detector sized gizmo
like the PCAS. *It's a big box.

RENTAL INSTALLATION: *I am not sure I have room to velcro this unit on
my glare shield and still close the canopy. 2 inches of vertical
clearance when offset from the centerline by 2 inches (1/2 the width
of the unit) may be asking a lot from most cockpits. * It would also
mean removing my flip chart style checklist (thank you Kemp) and would
block the view of my compass. *Also, it would obscure a good portion
of the view straight ahead, where I scan for head-on collisions... *It
would be mounted right in front of my Transponder antenna, and my GPS
antenna, both residing on top of the glare shield, possibly causing RF
issues?. *FInally, I am not sure how I feel about this undoubtedly
heavy, potential projectile velcroed to the dash (no weight was listed
on the PowerFlarm website) in the event of turbulence or impact.

PANEL INSTALLATION: The unit is quite wide, and would probably wipe
out at least two instruments currently on my panel. *I would have to
re-do the entire panel to make this install work. *That makes the
whole thing a lot less attractive. *If PowerFLARM wants wide adoption
in the glider community, they might want to re-consider the form
factor of their device. The display appears to be small, but there is
a gigantic knob on the front panel next to it, making the unit very
wide. If the form factor was such that I could remove my 57mm
transponder and pop in the PowerFLARM into that hole, then add a new
headless transponder somewhere, *That would be great!

Suggestion: *Why not have someone (SSA?, FLARM Fund?, PowerFLARM?)
make a free cardboard box the size of the proposed PowerFLARM that
could be mailed out to anyone that wanted it, especially contest
pilots, to see how many cockpits/pilots could actually accommodate the
unit if it were made available as a rental.

Like Matt mentioned, I did that already...

http://www.darryl-ramm.com/2010/08/b...flarm-paper-mo...

Please no complaining about needing to redo the whole panel in your
new Ventus toy. It's like the really pretty girl complaining how tough
it is to be popular. When you buy a glider you are *supposed* to redo
the entire panel, man up, its a rite of passage.


Darryl

But Darryl, it IS tough being so popular (grin).

Thanks for the cutout. as usual, you are way ahead of me. I will give
it a try and report back to the thread. The headless version of
PowerFLARM definitely alleviates my concerns about a permanent
installation. I will be at PASCO, Job and S.O. permitting...

Matt

On Oct 11, 7:47*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:
On Oct 11, 2:11*pm, Darryl Ramm wrote:

On Oct 11, 1:41*pm, "Matt Herron Jr." wrote:

Checking the PowerFLARM website, the physical size of the unit raises
some concerns for both temporary (rental) and permanent
installations. *The unit is almost 4 inches wide by 1.8" high, and
about 4 inches deep. *This is by no means a radar detector sized gizmo
like the PCAS. *It's a big box.

RENTAL INSTALLATION: *I am not sure I have room to velcro this unit on
my glare shield and still close the canopy. 2 inches of vertical
clearance when offset from the centerline by 2 inches (1/2 the width
of the unit) may be asking a lot from most cockpits. * It would also
mean removing my flip chart style checklist (thank you Kemp) and would
block the view of my compass. *Also, it would obscure a good portion
of the view straight ahead, where I scan for head-on collisions... *It
would be mounted right in front of my Transponder antenna, and my GPS
antenna, both residing on top of the glare shield, possibly causing RF
issues?. *FInally, I am not sure how I feel about this undoubtedly
heavy, potential projectile velcroed to the dash (no weight was listed
on the PowerFlarm website) in the event of turbulence or impact.

PANEL INSTALLATION: The unit is quite wide, and would probably wipe
out at least two instruments currently on my panel. *I would have to
re-do the entire panel to make this install work. *That makes the
whole thing a lot less attractive. *If PowerFLARM wants wide adoption
in the glider community, they might want to re-consider the form
factor of their device. The display appears to be small, but there is
a gigantic knob on the front panel next to it, making the unit very
wide. If the form factor was such that I could remove my 57mm
transponder and pop in the PowerFLARM into that hole, then add a new
headless transponder somewhere, *That would be great!

Suggestion: *Why not have someone (SSA?, FLARM Fund?, PowerFLARM?)
make a free cardboard box the size of the proposed PowerFLARM that
could be mailed out to anyone that wanted it, especially contest
pilots, to see how many cockpits/pilots could actually accommodate the
unit if it were made available as a rental.

Like Matt mentioned, I did that already...

http://www.darryl-ramm.com/2010/08/b...flarm-paper-mo...

*Please no complaining about needing to redo the whole panel in your

new Ventus toy. It's like the really pretty girl complaining how tough
it is to be popular. When you buy a glider you are *supposed* to redo
the entire panel, man up, its a rite of passage.

Darryl

But Darryl, it IS tough being so popular (grin).

Thanks for the cutout. *as usual, you are way ahead of me. I will give
it a try and report back to the thread. *The headless version of
PowerFLARM definitely alleviates my concerns about a permanent
installation. *I will be at PASCO, Job and S.O. permitting...

Matt

You mean your new glider might prevent you from attending