I like my privatized airport :)

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
k.net...

My A/FD is almost two years old, but it indicates MGW is an FAA Contract
Tower and JST is still an FAA tower.

JST is a shared military-civilian field and I thought this affects
procedures/staffing. For example, JST tower always reminds pilots "check
gear down" which is not something done at a "standard" FAA tower. But you
might be correct that this is different from being an FAA Contract tower.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

In article t,
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
My A/FD is almost two years old, but it indicates MGW is an FAA Contract
Tower and JST is still an FAA tower.

Forgive me for being dense, but the original poster said that Lancaster
(LNS) is a contract tower. I'm looking at my new A/FD, and I can't seem
to find out where it says that LNS is a contract tower. Where is this
listed?

--Ken

"Richard Kaplan" wrote in message
s.com...

"Byron Miller" wrote in message
...

Nicest controllers, safe airport and friendly skies. They're not any
more
incompetant than a "guvenment" controller and most certainly they enjoy
aviation and the lifestyle just as much as anyone else could!

Well this may be just coincidence and in any event when n=2 not all that
much can be concluded, but for what it is worth I have had two experiences
when controllers gave me instructions while low altitude in IMC which
could
have resulted in a controlled flight into terrain accident, and both
situations occurred at a non-towered field -- once at Morgantown WV KMGW
and
once at Johnstown PA KJST.

Lancaster (KLNS) is a haven for ILS approach practices. We have a large
corporate jet fleet and many people who practice in and out. US Airways
also has an express flight out of here. I havn't heard of ANYTHING but
praise for our friendly staff

Johnstown PA, well... i've just driven through there. Didn't even know they
still had an airport hehe.

"Byron Miller" wrote in message ...
I have been learning to fly and hanging out at KLNS (Lancaster PA) for
years, and it has been a privatized airport tower ever since i've known
about it.

Nicest controllers, safe airport and friendly skies. They're not any more
incompetant than a "guvenment" controller and most certainly they enjoy
aviation and the lifestyle just as much as anyone else could!

Heck they even volunteer to the ground schools and give tours when the FAA
allows!

Just thought i'd throw that in

The big ATC privatization issue is not so much about the tower guys at
your little class D airports. The big worry is more about enroute
stuff, centers, approach, departure, clearance delivery and all of a
sudden everyone getting repeatedly billed large sums of money just for
flying thru some airspace handled by some private corporation that
will staff these positions with personnel the quality of a typical
computer tech support script-parrot.

"One's Too Many" wrote in message
om...
"Byron Miller" wrote in message
...
I have been learning to fly and hanging out at KLNS (Lancaster PA) for
years, and it has been a privatized airport tower ever since i've known
about it.

Nicest controllers, safe airport and friendly skies. They're not any
more
incompetant than a "guvenment" controller and most certainly they enjoy
aviation and the lifestyle just as much as anyone else could!

Heck they even volunteer to the ground schools and give tours when the
FAA
allows!

Just thought i'd throw that in

The big ATC privatization issue is not so much about the tower guys at
your little class D airports. The big worry is more about enroute
stuff, centers, approach, departure, clearance delivery and all of a
sudden everyone getting repeatedly billed large sums of money just for
flying thru some airspace handled by some private corporation that
will staff these positions with personnel the quality of a typical
computer tech support script-parrot.


Given the FAA retains Certification and enforcement powers, which everyone
agrees is an inherently governmental function, the qualification scare
tactic is obviously a red herring.

Fees are a big issue but privatization doesn't have to mean the money earned
by private contractors comes from any source other than where it comes now.
It is very equitable to burden fuel with the fees; that way 777's pay more
than Cessna 150's, and no one would ever have to choose not to call a FSS,
ask for Flight Folowing or file IFR because they'd rather not incur the
cost. Just pay them out of those funds based on some formula. That isn't
rocket science.

I'm sure wages, job security and retirement pay is better for Federal
workers than the contractors but this has nothing to do with the tone of the
debate

-Greg

"One's Too Many" wrote in message
om...

Just thought i'd throw that in

The big ATC privatization issue is not so much about the tower guys at
your little class D airports. The big worry is more about enroute
stuff, centers, approach, departure, clearance delivery and all of a
sudden everyone getting repeatedly billed large sums of money just for
flying thru some airspace handled by some private corporation that
will staff these positions with personnel the quality of a typical
computer tech support script-parrot.

I understand that. But coming from actually knowing people "on the inside"
alot of what the FAA uses is from private companies/organizations. I'm sure
my lil Class D airport isn't reall the issue, but on the flipside, most
class B isn't for us "GA" pilots in many ways. I find landing at the class
B airports to be expensive as is, so any more fees wouldn't really bother
me. If i have to fly through them then i look for the VFR routes through
them or i go under and around them. No sense in my lil tin can to get in the
way of heavies.

The only Difference between contracted and government workers to me is the
people pushing the contract. IF this is a union labor vs non union labor
then leave me out of it. If this is privatized - IE "contracted" airports
then my point is to say there are alot of fully functional "privatized" ATC
airports that work like a charm.

Joe controller is still Joe controller be it he works for the government or
not.

Believe me, i'm all against privatizing in the sense that the FAA drops
federal subsidation for aviation as that would murder the industry, but
privitization via contracting out jobs to bidders isn't anything that
concerns me.

If our military can do it, if the business sector can do it, why can't the
government sector continue to do it?

Byron Miller wrote:
I have been learning to fly and hanging out at KLNS (Lancaster PA) for
years, and it has been a privatized airport tower ever since i've known
about it.

Nicest controllers, safe airport and friendly skies. They're not any more
incompetant than a "guvenment" controller and most certainly they enjoy
aviation and the lifestyle just as much as anyone else could!

Heck they even volunteer to the ground schools and give tours when the FAA
allows!

Just thought i'd throw that in

Byron,

Have to admit years ago I went there on a couple student cross countries
and they couldn't have been friendlier. Very helpful. They honestly
seemed to enjoy their job and helping us "little guys". That perception
stuck with me for years...that's how good I thought they were.

The last two times I went there at night this past spring surprised me,
however. Both times I had to deal with a TOTALLY CLUELESS guy who,
IMHO, should NOT be in that cab. I won't go into details why, but it
came down to the fact he caused two separation issues, one of which
involved me, and just didn't seem to have sufficient grasp of what was
going on around him. He seemed to be (for lack of a better word) senile.

Of course, I responded to this message not to bash on one LNS
controller, but to point out that based on my experience, I agree with
you...there is no apparent difference in quality of service between FAA
vs. Contract towers. If anything, I think the contract guys are
friendlier overall.

That was certainly the case at KASH (Nashua NH) where I did a lot of
flying several years ago. Great guys (and gals). ASH handles more
traffic than MHT (Manchester, the air carrier airport to the north), and
they did it professionally, day in and out.

They were also great because they never used to mind me hanging out in
the cab with them on crummy weather days, while they played board games,
we watched brave souls ride the ILS, only to go missed in WOXOF
conditions, and I asked dumb pilot questions about ATC operations. Wish
I had those controllers at my home field.

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, CFIMEIA

http://www.dvcfi.com
--------------------

Byron Miller wrote:

I have been learning to fly and hanging out at KLNS (Lancaster PA) for
years, and it has been a privatized airport tower ever since i've known
about it.

Nicest controllers, safe airport and friendly skies. They're not any more
incompetant than a "guvenment" controller and most certainly they enjoy
aviation and the lifestyle just as much as anyone else could!



I would like to second this opinion based on my positive experiences
flying out of San Carlos, CA (KSQL), a contract tower. They sure are
easier to deal with than the folks at nearby Hayward (HWD), a unionized
tower.

There are two separate issues at play in the debate. First, we pilots
represented by organizations like AOPA don't want to have to pay
anything for air traffic services. Second, federal air traffic
controller employees represented by a labor union want to get paid well
and preserve their jobs. The union would like you to believe that
allowing the government to hire contractors means pilots will have to
pay for ATC, however the two issues are not related in this way.

The choice by the government to employ contractors to run a tower
instead of unionized federal employees is actually a good thing for us
pilots who don't want to pay for air traffic services, because the
contract towers are significantly cheaper for the government to operate,
while actually providing a statistically higher level of safety to
pilots according to a recent government audit from the Inspector
General's office conducted at the request of the ATC labor unions. You
can download the report here and judge the data for yourself:

http://www.oig.dot.gov/item_details.php?item=1161

While there are many opinions on this issue, the data presented in the
report seems clear.
-angus

"Angus Davis" wrote in message
...

While there are many opinions on this issue, the data presented in the
report seems clear.

I am not sure if I have enough information to reach a conclusion on this.
The report does, indeed, indicate that FAA VFR towers have 5 times more
deviations than contracted VFR towers. The report also says that these are
self-reported deviations and that no system is in place to routinely report
or attempt to report all deviations.

So either I have to conclude that contracted towers are 5 times safer than
FAA towers or I have to conclude that there is a data collection issue here
and the data is therefore insufficient to draw a conclusion. I personally
conclude the latter -- even if contrated towers are "safer," it is hard for
me to believe that they make only 20% of the errors as FAA towers if other
factors were held equal.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com