High Performance Single Engine Choices

What does it matter? You need to decide what is important to you, speed,
range, payload or price. You are not going to get all of them. Your price
range is so wide that I assume that you haven't really figured out how much
you can spend and your performance requirements are so high that you will
never find anything approaching your budget and your performance.

If I were you, I would buy a the Used Aircraft Guide and start reading and
think about what you are really looking for.

Mike
MU-2


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message
...
Does anyone have, or know where I can find, an ordered list of high
performance single-engine (HPSE) aircraft according to their crusing
speed?

It would even be cooler to have (average) retail prices in the list.
If not, I will work on a project to put such a list together if others
are interested. What I would really like to see is which aircraft has
the best purchase-price-to-speed ratio. Someone has to have created
such a list somewhere?!

-Sami

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:
Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: 160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: 800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and
advice.

-Sami

Mike, I am going through a used aircraft guide and, unfortunately, they
do not ordr their lists in a convenient way. While I agree that I have
to consider they trade-offs carefully and make some hard choices, it
seems to me that those choices begin with information about each factor
(like speed) considered seperately. So...that is why it matters.

-Sami

Mike Rapoport wrote:
What does it matter? You need to decide what is important to you, speed,
range, payload or price. You are not going to get all of them. Your price
range is so wide that I assume that you haven't really figured out how much
you can spend and your performance requirements are so high that you will
never find anything approaching your budget and your performance.

If I were you, I would buy a the Used Aircraft Guide and start reading and
think about what you are really looking for.

Mike
MU-2


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message
...

Does anyone have, or know where I can find, an ordered list of high
performance single-engine (HPSE) aircraft according to their crusing

speed?

It would even be cooler to have (average) retail prices in the list.
If not, I will work on a project to put such a list together if others
are interested. What I would really like to see is which aircraft has
the best purchase-price-to-speed ratio. Someone has to have created
such a list somewhere?!

-Sami

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:

Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: 160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: 800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no HP/complex
time)


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and

advice.

-Sami

If you are going to really make 800nm flights then there will only be a
handful of candidates (if any) that meet your other requirements and none of
them will be close to your budget. In fact, I'm pretty sure that there
isn't a single airplane that can meet your stated requirements at any price.

If you are really going to make 800nm flights then range is the only thing
that matters. It doesn't matter if one airplane is 30kts faster, if it has
to refuel it well get there second. Keep in mind that to fly 800nm legs you
will need over a 1000nm still air range. You might want to reconsider the
payload with full fuel requirement. It doesn't really matter what the full
fuel payload is. It matters what the payload is with enough fuel to make
the flight. It is unlikely that you will ever fly four people 800nm in a
single since it would be difficult to find three others who are willing to
spend 5hrs in a little airplane. Engine TBO is a just one part of operating
cost, it is silly to insist on some arbitrary number like 2000hrs. The real
issue is how much per hour the engine will cost over its lifetime.

I would look at what airplanes are within your budget.. Not just the
aquisition budget but the flying budget too. Can you spend $20k/yr on
flying? $30K? The worst airplane to own is one that is too expensive for
you to fly regardless of its other virtues. Budget issues will narrow down
the choices considerably. Then consider insurance if you feel you need
insurance. Then how many people will realistically be in the airplane and
how large are they. THEN you can consder the perfornace tradeoffs.

Mike
MU-2



"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message
...
Mike, I am going through a used aircraft guide and, unfortunately, they
do not ordr their lists in a convenient way. While I agree that I have
to consider they trade-offs carefully and make some hard choices, it
seems to me that those choices begin with information about each factor
(like speed) considered seperately. So...that is why it matters.

-Sami

Mike Rapoport wrote:
What does it matter? You need to decide what is important to you,
speed,
range, payload or price. You are not going to get all of them. Your
price
range is so wide that I assume that you haven't really figured out how
much
you can spend and your performance requirements are so high that you
will
never find anything approaching your budget and your performance.

If I were you, I would buy a the Used Aircraft Guide and start reading
and
think about what you are really looking for.

Mike
MU-2


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message
...

Does anyone have, or know where I can find, an ordered list of high
performance single-engine (HPSE) aircraft according to their crusing

speed?

It would even be cooler to have (average) retail prices in the list.
If not, I will work on a project to put such a list together if others
are interested. What I would really like to see is which aircraft has
the best purchase-price-to-speed ratio. Someone has to have created
such a list somewhere?!

-Sami

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:

Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: 160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: 800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no
HP/complex
time)


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little
cramped
in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that
meets
the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and

advice.

-Sami

Mike,

Actually, my typical flight will be about 660nm...so I need that
distance (plus 45 mins of reserve).

Still, it would be good to have a sorted list of complex planes based on
range. You are right...that is the key factor to consider first.
What I would like to know is that once I factor this in, which aircraft
make the short list. My used aircraft book does not list range in the
spec sheet. it lists fuel capacity, but it does not list cruise burn
rates, so it is hard to figure these out. I am just trying to tap into
the expereince of this forum to either make some suggestions, or point
me at sources that has the information I seek.

-sami

Mike Rapoport wrote:
If you are going to really make 800nm flights then there will only be a
handful of candidates (if any) that meet your other requirements and none of
them will be close to your budget. In fact, I'm pretty sure that there
isn't a single airplane that can meet your stated requirements at any price.

If you are really going to make 800nm flights then range is the only thing
that matters. It doesn't matter if one airplane is 30kts faster, if it has
to refuel it well get there second. Keep in mind that to fly 800nm legs you
will need over a 1000nm still air range. You might want to reconsider the
payload with full fuel requirement. It doesn't really matter what the full
fuel payload is. It matters what the payload is with enough fuel to make
the flight. It is unlikely that you will ever fly four people 800nm in a
single since it would be difficult to find three others who are willing to
spend 5hrs in a little airplane. Engine TBO is a just one part of operating
cost, it is silly to insist on some arbitrary number like 2000hrs. The real
issue is how much per hour the engine will cost over its lifetime.

I would look at what airplanes are within your budget.. Not just the
aquisition budget but the flying budget too. Can you spend $20k/yr on
flying? $30K? The worst airplane to own is one that is too expensive for
you to fly regardless of its other virtues. Budget issues will narrow down
the choices considerably. Then consider insurance if you feel you need
insurance. Then how many people will realistically be in the airplane and
how large are they. THEN you can consder the perfornace tradeoffs.

Mike
MU-2



"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message
...

Mike, I am going through a used aircraft guide and, unfortunately, they
do not ordr their lists in a convenient way. While I agree that I have
to consider they trade-offs carefully and make some hard choices, it
seems to me that those choices begin with information about each factor
(like speed) considered seperately. So...that is why it matters.

-Sami

Mike Rapoport wrote:

What does it matter? You need to decide what is important to you,

speed,

range, payload or price. You are not going to get all of them. Your

price

range is so wide that I assume that you haven't really figured out how

much

you can spend and your performance requirements are so high that you

will

never find anything approaching your budget and your performance.

If I were you, I would buy a the Used Aircraft Guide and start reading

and

think about what you are really looking for.

Mike
MU-2


"O. Sami Saydjari" wrote in message
...


Does anyone have, or know where I can find, an ordered list of high
performance single-engine (HPSE) aircraft according to their crusing

speed?


It would even be cooler to have (average) retail prices in the list.
If not, I will work on a project to put such a list together if others
are interested. What I would really like to see is which aircraft has
the best purchase-price-to-speed ratio. Someone has to have created
such a list somewhere?!

-Sami

O. Sami Saydjari wrote:


Folks, I am a first-time aircraft buyer. I have a general idea of the
type of aircraft I want, but am having trouble narrowing the list down.
Here is my general list of wants/needs:

1. Fast: 160 kts
2. Price range: $75K-$120K
3. Four Seater
4. Range: 800nm
5. Useful Payload (with full fuel); 650lbs
6. Retains its value well over time
7. Reliable: Engine TBO of 2000 hrs, good saftey record
8. Insurable for a pilot with only 350 hrs PIC experience (no

HP/complex

time)


I have been thinking about a Piper Comanche 260 and a Piper Turbo Arrow
III/IV. I was considering a Mooney M20J, but they feel a little

cramped

in the cabin to me. What I am looking for is the best dollars/kts
airplane (what we call price/performance in the computer biz) that

meets

the above requirements. I would really appreciate suggestions and

advice.


-Sami

Well, best purchase price to speed...my guess would be a Hawker Hunter.
You can pick up a single seat variant for about £45k, and it goes mach 0.92.

Not sure what prices Gnats go for these days, but they do mach 0.98.

Both are trans-sonic in a dive.

Paul