CAVU and I'm Grounded!

john smith wrote:
Jay Honeck wrote:

If he's in Class B, he's definitely screwed without a transponder.
However, it's not broken -- he's missing a piece of paperwork. If the
thing
is working (and, as I said, ATC will let you know if something is amiss),
make an appointment to get the thing checked, and go fly.
A transponder is hardly a flight-critical instrument.

The Regs allow for operation within Class B without a transponder,
working or absent. Even under the Veil!

I frequently fly in and out of several airports within the KCVG CBSA
(Cincinnati) veil in a 1945 Aeronca Champ with no electrical system. I
also flew into controlled fields beneath the KATL CBAS enroute to and
from SNF last year. A transponder is not a "safety of flight" device.

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 22:52:51 GMT, john smith wrote:

john smith wrote:
Jay Honeck wrote:

If he's in Class B, he's definitely screwed without a transponder.
However, it's not broken -- he's missing a piece of paperwork. If the
thing
is working (and, as I said, ATC will let you know if something is amiss),
make an appointment to get the thing checked, and go fly.
A transponder is hardly a flight-critical instrument.

The Regs allow for operation within Class B without a transponder,
working or absent. Even under the Veil!

I frequently fly in and out of several airports within the KCVG CBSA
(Cincinnati) veil in a 1945 Aeronca Champ with no electrical system. I
also flew into controlled fields beneath the KATL CBAS enroute to and
from SNF last year. A transponder is not a "safety of flight" device.

Right, because your no-electrical-system aircraft is one that is
exempted from the requirements of 91.215 because it never had an
electrical system, right? You still have to make arrangements as
specified in 91.215(d)(3) right?? I think you're using an
apples-to-oranges comparison to this case where the aircraft,
certified and equipped with a transponder in place, has to meet the
requirements of 91.131 and 91.215.

Ron Natalie wrote:

I thought Morgan Fairchild was the black guy in Driving Ms. Daisy.

Well, there are a lot of people on ebay that don't think so. Quite a few ads
like this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ategory=23 12

George Patterson
Battle, n; A method of untying with the teeth a political knot that would
not yield to the tongue.

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:20:09 +0000, Jay Honeck wrote:

However, it's not broken -- he's missing a piece of paperwork. If the thing
is working (and, as I said, ATC will let you know if something is amiss),

What if he got ramped? Would it be such a little piece of missing paper
then? Would the nice FAA guy say, "I know it's a little thing that doesn't
matter and I'm going to let you slide on it, just this once."?

Not that it would happen, but if it did...

"Matthew P. Cummings" writes:

What if he got ramped?

sarcasm ON

What if an asteroid fell on him?

What if he got in a car wreck on the way to the airport?

What if he did go flying with his illegal airplane, and ate at an
airport restaurant, and the waitress who took his order started
hitting on him 'cause he's such a fearless, reckless daredevil, and
they had an affair, and his wife found out and divorced him, and he
lost his plane?

What if life happened to him?

What if all our ancestors were all so law abiding and meek and
cautious and they had stayed home and left North America alone? Then
there would still be saber-toothed tigers in Los Angeles, maybe.

sarcasm OFF

BTIZ wrote:
should I be surprised that people are encouraging others to disregard the
regulations?

Put it to you this way: flew from Nashville to Norman, OK today (with
appropriate fuel stops). Headwinds were stronger than expected; I
expected to have night VFR reserves at landing, but when we got closer
to that point, I wasn't sure I'd be holding them (perfectly legal).
Stopped at Norman to drop off pax, then planned to head down to David
Jay Perry, where we keep the airplane. 1K4 is about six miles from OUN;
you can see either from the other's pattern.

I was *not* going to pay Cruise's fuel prices to carry a 45-minute
reserve for a six-minute flight.

(As it turned out, we had 45 minutes in the right tank, and about ten in
the left, so all was cool. Still getting used to the fuel gauges in
that dumb thing.)

--Dave

--
Dave Buckles

http://www.flight-instruction.com

How about this scenario. Your weight and balance paperwork is missing.
Or you don't have your medical on you. Or your BFR expired a few days
ago, but it's just a short trip around the pattern for a ride for a
friend. Whatever. You have an incident that bangs up the plane. Do
you think your insurance company is going to pay. Not likely.

Dave Buckles wrote:
BTIZ wrote:

should I be surprised that people are encouraging others to disregard the
regulations?


Put it to you this way: flew from Nashville to Norman, OK today (with
appropriate fuel stops). Headwinds were stronger than expected; I
expected to have night VFR reserves at landing, but when we got closer
to that point, I wasn't sure I'd be holding them (perfectly legal).
Stopped at Norman to drop off pax, then planned to head down to David
Jay Perry, where we keep the airplane. 1K4 is about six miles from OUN;
you can see either from the other's pattern.

I was *not* going to pay Cruise's fuel prices to carry a 45-minute
reserve for a six-minute flight.

(As it turned out, we had 45 minutes in the right tank, and about ten in
the left, so all was cool. Still getting used to the fuel gauges in
that dumb thing.)

--Dave



--
Remove "2PLANES" to reply.

Matthew P. Cummings wrote:
What if he got ramped? Would it be such a little piece of missing paper
then? Would the nice FAA guy say, "I know it's a little thing that doesn't
matter and I'm going to let you slide on it, just this once."?

A Ramp Check is a voluntary submission. If you think you could be
violated for any reason, do not submit to it.

"Dan Truesdell" wrote in message
...
How about this scenario. Your weight and balance paperwork is missing.
Or you don't have your medical on you. Or your BFR expired a few days
ago, but it's just a short trip around the pattern for a ride for a
friend. Whatever. You have an incident that bangs up the plane. Do
you think your insurance company is going to pay. Not likely.

Mine would. If you accept a policy with those type of exclusions that's
your problem.

Gee Jay, a plane that is out of annual isn't broken either, it's just
missing
paperwork.... where do you draw the line?

I consider an annual inspection to be a flight-critical safety procedure.

I consider a just-out-of-date 24 month transponder check on a VFR aircraft,
on a VFR day, to be an absurd reason to ground a plane.

But then, around here I would just turn the damned thing off. He
apparently doesn't have that option.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"