IDAHO FATALITY

On Aug 21, 9:27*pm, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Aug 22, 8:47*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

A little rudder
to help the turn along, a little back stick because we're not as high
as we thought, and in the glider goes.

I can't help but wonder how many fewer people would ever have the idea
to try the above if it hadn't been suggested to them by their
instructor's patter during training.

I don't think any instructor suggests this sort of thing actively.
Instructors try to remove these bad thoughts and unconscious habits,
and sometimes are not able completely to do so.

Becoming an instructor has been a great learning experience, as I have
been able to see these things happen. You can have a student with
great coordination and glidepath control at altitude, and who can
explain everything perfectly on oral quizzing. Then, things get a
little tight in the pattern, like he's too close and too low. His
attention gets focused elsewhere and stress goes up, and next thing
you know the yaw string is right over to the side on base to final and
he wants to pull the stick back. Instructing makes you a better
pilot: If he can do this, I can do it too, and helping the student
avoid the bad thought patterns helps the instructor as well

Tom Knauff has been very insightful on this. It's not bad ideas put
there by instructors. It's subconscious bad ideas that only bubble to
the surface in times of stress and attention focused elsewhere. And
detecting these, giving students experiences with high stress
situations, purging the bad thoughts, and all of this safely, is quite
hard.

John Cochrane

So much reliance on radios!

I'm continually told that the radio in the tug I fly is "unreadable",
"garbled", etc. I have no control over it. The operation has no money to
fix the problem. Should they shut down, instead? What I *do* have control
over is looking over the glider that I'm going to tow and refusing to take
up slack if I'm not happy with the condition of the glider.

Some glider pilots (myself included, depending on the glider) begin the
takeoff roll with the spoliers open. Likewise, everyone hauling water tells
me so (the receiver works just fine). They don't need to tell me - I know
the second I advance power if they're light or heavy. I still appreciate
the call. Likewise, I always inform the tow pilot that I have water on
board, though I'm sure he can feel it.

I'm still hearing excuses for poor pilot technique and lack of knowledge of
signals.


"JJ Sinclair" wrote in message
...

The rudder waggle does not mean "release now." How terribly sad

John Cochrane

If radios were required by that club or FBO and a com-check had been
performed before takeoff, the tragic sequence of events would have
been stopped with a simple, "Close your spoilers" call from the tow
pilot. All the clubs & FBO's in region 11 have got the word, but it
took 4 preventable fatalities to do it. When is the SSA going to get
the word?
JJ Sinclair

On 8/22/2011 5:52 AM, Cookie wrote:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._and_incidents

Growing up in Northern NJ, I had the great pleasure of attending the
Sussex airshow for twenty something of the 30 something years it was
held. Anybody and everybody in the airshow business performed there
over those years. These were the top stunt pilots in the world..The
most professional, the most talented...simply the best...

I occasionally pull out the old programmes from these shows......the
sad reality is that just about 50% of those pilots are dead...

And another fatality on Aug 20 at a Kansas City airshow.

I used to do low passes during contest finishes, but even before we
switched to GPS finishes, I realized there were many ways it could go
wrong (fortunately always from watching others botch it), that I had no
training in it, and since I did it only a few times a year, maybe it
wasn't something I should keep doing. So, despite the excitement it
generates, I don't do it any more.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Aug 21, 10:27*pm, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Aug 22, 8:47*am, John Cochrane
wrote:

A little rudder
to help the turn along, a little back stick because we're not as high
as we thought, and in the glider goes.

I can't help but wonder how many fewer people would ever have the idea
to try the above if it hadn't been suggested to them by their
instructor's patter during training.

I'm with JJ on this topic. I find it incredible that just about every
glider with retractable gear has a gear warning alarm to keep from
damaging the gelcoat or a couple of layers of carbon on the belly, but
we don't have an "Open Spoiler" alarm to prevent someone from dying on
tow..

On Aug 21, 9:02*pm, hretting wrote:
You're all girliemen who can't accept that there will always be lousy
airmen. Low passes are loved by those who enjoy the rush of one's ship
'Stored Energy' being use in a most thrilling way, carefully trading
this energy for a unique flight profile.
Limit my airmanship because of an act by a poor pilot....? S__t no.
Let's set the speed limit to 45 on the interstate and see how you
would react.
Did I write you're all girliemen? Yep, above .....go eat your
broccoli.
R

Best low pass I ever saw was HW in his Nimbus 4 at Perry. Down the
entire runway at 5' pulling up into a loop. Now there's an airman!
It was the most fantastic soaring event I have ever witness and would
never attempt such a feat caus' I ain't that good.

While I love watching a properly done low pass a much as the next guy.
My problem with them is that it you don't know which pilot is watching
it that doesn't realize he "ain't that good". Then someone gets to
watch an improperly done low pass with that isn't nearly as much fun
to watch.
It seems to me that the low pass pull up accident seems to happen with
all to much frequency although my gut feeling is that they have
tapered off some since we have gone to the higher altitude finishes is
contests. Would be interesting to see if the numbers support this
feeling.

Brian

Best low pass I ever saw was HW in his Nimbus 4 at Perry. Down the
entire runway at 5' pulling up into a loop. Now there's an airman!
It was the most fantastic soaring event I have ever witness and would
never attempt such a feat caus' I ain't that good.

I remember a young lieutenant that was going through RF-4 training
with me. On a sortie working with an Army detachment, he was asked for
a low pass after providing the recon they had requested.. He came by
slow with gear and flaps down then lit both burners, pulled the nose
up and rolled the ship. The Army guys said he almost made it, but
dished-out and made a spectacular fireball for the troops!
In going through his personal effects, they found a tape of the
Thunderbirds doing the same maneuver in the F-4, but without the dish-
out and fireball.
We have seen all too many of these type of copycat accidents and who
are they copying? I'm afraid its us competition pilots.
Monkey see, monkey do,
JJ

I'm continually told that the radio in the tug I fly is "unreadable",
"garbled", etc. *I have no control over it. *The operation has no money to

Don't know what to tell you Dan, is the radio garbled with engine off?
Could be a place to start.

I have aften thought that my friend Hal would have willingly bought a
radio for every tow plane in the country, had he only known the tragic
events that awaited him and his tow pilot that November day, 2 years
ago.
JJ

On 8/22/2011 9:12 AM, Mike wrote:
On Aug 21, 10:27 pm, Bruce wrote:
On Aug 22, 8:47 am, John
wrote:

A little rudder
to help the turn along, a little back stick because we're not as high
as we thought, and in the glider goes.

I can't help but wonder how many fewer people would ever have the idea
to try the above if it hadn't been suggested to them by their
instructor's patter during training.

I'm with JJ on this topic. I find it incredible that just about every
glider with retractable gear has a gear warning alarm to keep from
damaging the gelcoat or a couple of layers of carbon on the belly, but
we don't have an "Open Spoiler" alarm to prevent someone from dying on
tow..

I think a "open spoiler on tow" is a great idea, and I've had one for
several years, as do some other people. If you have a Cambridge 302
vario, it's easy to add one, especially if it's already used for your
gear warning.

Operation is simple: if your spoilers are still unlocked as the airspeed
increases past ~25 knots, you get an audible warning. It works for towed
gliders and motorgliders, using the same gear and spoiler switches used
for the gear warning - no changes in wiring needed.

Perhaps even better than a warning device is one that prevents them from
opening in the first place. DG gliders can do a retrofit of the "Piggot
hook" that prevents the spoilers from opening if they are left unlocked.
Get the info from DG. Many gliders (at least experimental licensed ones)
can be easily fitted with a similar device.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz

"A man has to know his limitations..."

I'm with JJ on radios. It's stupid not to have one and use it.

More importantly, it's about being responsible for one's actions, to
include training, currency, proficiency...

That being said;

I still do low passes. In the right conditions, they are a blast.
But I treat them as a potentially very dangerous maneuver, and plan
them carefully - to include making sure there is no one in the
pattern, the weather is good (not gusty or too windy), I have
sufficient energy for the pass, etc. Then I fly them as a low
approach, down the runway, avoiding overflying people or structures.

I rarely do them at a contest, because the pattern is almost always
too full. Maybe on a late aero retrieve, to give the beer-drinking
crowd something to bitch about...

But if the opportunity arises, and the conditions are right - yeah,
I'll do a worm burner -Yee Haa!

Unsafe? Thermalling is unsafe in a gaggle. Landing out is unsafe -
look at all the broken gliders. Winch launching is unsafe.
Practicing PTT is unsafe if you screw it up.

SOARING IS UNSAFE - LOOK AT THE STATS!

But it isn't a low pass that is dangerous - or any of the other things
mentioned above - it's the pilot that is dangerous. And a lot of us
(probably all of us, at some time or another) are DANGEROUS.

So the answer is actually pretty simple.

Fly safe, don't crash.

Kirk
66

A bungee cord can be attached to the air brake handle and the other end
attached to a forward location. This will keep the air brakes closed even
though they are not locked. I have used this system on several gliders.






At 21:47 22 August 2011, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 8/22/2011 9:12 AM, Mike wrote:
On Aug 21, 10:27 pm, Bruce Hoult wrote:
On Aug 22, 8:47 am, John Cochrane
wrote:

A little rudder
to help the turn along, a little back stick because we're not as high
as we thought, and in the glider goes.

I can't help but wonder how many fewer people would ever have the idea
to try the above if it hadn't been suggested to them by their
instructor's patter during training.

I'm with JJ on this topic. I find it incredible that just about every
glider with retractable gear has a gear warning alarm to keep from
damaging the gelcoat or a couple of layers of carbon on the belly, but
we don't have an "Open Spoiler" alarm to prevent someone from dying on
tow..

I think a "open spoiler on tow" is a great idea, and I've had one for
several years, as do some other people. If you have a Cambridge 302
vario, it's easy to add one, especially if it's already used for your
gear warning.

Operation is simple: if your spoilers are still unlocked as the airspeed
increases past ~25 knots, you get an audible warning. It works for towed
gliders and motorgliders, using the same gear and spoiler switches used
for the gear warning - no changes in wiring needed.

Perhaps even better than a warning device is one that prevents them from
opening in the first place. DG gliders can do a retrofit of the "Piggot
hook" that prevents the spoilers from opening if they are left unlocked.
Get the info from DG. Many gliders (at least experimental licensed ones)
can be easily fitted with a similar device.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation Mar/2004" Much of what
you need to know tinyurl.com/yfs7tnz