Slavery In Aviation

Quit bitching and go be "self-employed", that's what your should do. It's
the mature alternative.

NOT if he doesn't like working for free!!!!

However, the topic needs to be discussed. There appear to be a number of
deluded individuals that think being forced to work without pay is a good
thing. Personally, I think it is theft and, at bottom, an offense as
serious
as murder.

As are the unaccounted for personal calls and 10-minute "unofficial" breaks
that everyone takes on the boss's dime. Asking an employee to work over
isn't theft. It's a request. Forcing an *hourly* employee to work off the
clock isn't a good thing. But if your wanting to show your "work ethic" and
your willingness to do whatever it takes to get the job done, then it can
endear you to the people who write your check (creating more opportunity for
advancement, etc). Become a clock watcher on me and I'll become one on you.



....stuff clipped here....


When they refuse to shovel the walk to the air
terminal, does that mean they have no more team spirit?

No, but it does show your priorities. I'm only interested in employees who
care about the company (and thereby their jobs). Refusing to do something
that is necessary for the company's survival makes no sense to me. Do it
and move on. Now, if that "something" becomes an everyday thing, then there
is a problem in the company. The occasional "free" hour helps everyone.

Not the way your union steward will see it, but then again.....screw the
union.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

snip

I think it is theft and, at bottom, an offense as serious
as murder.

snip

trolling deep today ......

"Jeff Franks" wrote in message
...

When they refuse to shovel the walk to the air
terminal, does that mean they have no more team spirit?

No, but it does show your priorities. I'm only interested in employees who
care about the company (and thereby their jobs). Refusing to do something
that is necessary for the company's survival makes no sense to me.

It's like you said, and it's also customer service. If my students can't
get into the building without getting their feet wet because the walks
aren't shoveled they may end up going somewhere else, which would also be my
loss.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

"Tom S." wrote in message
...

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
. ..

Indeed. But it depends on one's definition of "compensation". If he
gets
hours out of it, I'm curious how your IRS would account for that --
a
non-cash remuneration.

It's only the FAA that thinks that intangible job experiece is
renumeration.

They got it from the IRS and their version of "Wages and Salaries" (not
what
the 16th originally defined).

Nope, the IRS doesn't hold that "job experience" is taxable.
But evidently the FAA does :~)

Where'd they get that notion, huh?

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...
|
| "Bob Dole" wrote in message
|
| Has anyone else noticed ? ------
|
| While numerous responders shoot off in multiple directions, expounding
on
| everything from moral work ethic to the oppression of the proletariat,
our
| original troll, Mr. "Bob Dole" chooses only to sit back and watch the
show.

However, the topic needs to be discussed. There appear to be a number of
deluded individuals that think being forced to work without pay is a good
thing. Personally, I think it is theft and, at bottom, an offense as
serious
as murder.

"Forced"? Someone is holding a gun on them? Holding their family hostage?

On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 13:52:39 -0700, "Tom S." wrote
in Message-Id: :


"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"John Gaquin" wrote in message
...
|
| "Bob Dole" wrote in message
|
| Has anyone else noticed ? ------
|
| While numerous responders shoot off in multiple directions, expounding
on
| everything from moral work ethic to the oppression of the proletariat,
our
| original troll, Mr. "Bob Dole" chooses only to sit back and watch the
show.

However, the topic needs to be discussed. There appear to be a number of
deluded individuals that think being forced to work without pay is a good
thing. Personally, I think it is theft and, at bottom, an offense as
serious
as murder.

"Forced"? Someone is holding a gun on them? Holding their family hostage?


Is a women employee asked by her boss to perform sexual acts to keep
her job being coerced?

"C J Campbell" wrote in message ...

However, the topic needs to be discussed. There appear to be a number of
deluded individuals that think being forced to work without pay is a good
thing. Personally, I think it is theft and, at bottom, an offense as serious
as murder.

You have GOT to be kidding.

Please get a grip, CJ, and develop a few more nuances in your sense
of perspective.

One wonders: why all these people willing to put up with such conditions?
They think that if they just build enough hours or 'pay their dues' that
they will eventually get a decent paying job.

Precisely.

And when they do start demanding to be paid, does that mean that they have
lost their work ethic?

It means they have decided that their long-term goals are no longer
being served by their short-term deprivations.

If everyone in the profession pretty much feels the same way, things
will change. If there's a line of people with the same qualifications
out the door and around the block who are willing to deal with the
status quo working conditions, the polite employer's response will
be "good luck in your future endeavors, don't let the door hit you
on the way out"

It's called supply-and-demand in the free market, and while it's not
pretty sometimes I haven't heard of a better system yet.

Sydney

"Gary Mishler" wrote in message news:Ewbsb.172027$HS4.1394008@attbi_s01...

"Jeff Franks" wrote in message
...
No, but it does show your priorities. I'm only interested in employees who
care about the company (and thereby their jobs). Refusing to do something
that is necessary for the company's survival makes no sense to me.

It's like you said, and it's also customer service. If my students can't
get into the building without getting their feet wet because the walks
aren't shoveled they may end up going somewhere else, which would also be my
loss.

True story.

It doesn't snow that much in St Louis, and when it does snow, it usually
only lasts a couple days before melting off. So people and businesses
don't make the same level of arrangements to cope as people in colder
climes must.

When I was a student pilot at a local flight school, we had a cold
snap following a reasonably substantial snow. A week after the snowfall,
snow was still on the ground.

I went out to the airport to fly. The planes were still covered with
snow. The ramps surrounding the planes were plowed, but snow had been
pushed up so that it formed a barrier to pulling each plane out.

A number of CFIs were sitting around a table inside, kvetching
about how they weren't flying and hence weren't earning money.

Now I guess snow removal wasn't in their job description. But if
they'd all pitched in and shoveled the snow off the planes, put
the first planes on the schedule inside the heated hangars to warm
up, called the airport authority to plow the cleared section of the
ramp clean then moved other planes and gotten the rest of the ramp
plowed, they could have been flying (and earning money) all week.
And honey, I'm from Western New York and I've shoveled snow in my
time. I coulda got that whole ramp clean by myself in 3 days with
only a shovel. Half a dozen strapping and healthy young fellows
and a tractor with a plow on it, 3 hrs max.

They lost. Their employer lost, and ultimately went out of business.

I guess sometimes it's better to avoid working for free sometimes than to
keep working at all.

Sydney

Quite a rant, CJ. Get a grip.

"C J Campbell" wrote in message

....I think it is theft and, at bottom, an offense as serious
as murder.

One of the more patently ridiculous statements I've seen in a newsgroup.


Or do you think that they will just
continue being willing to fly 747s on international routes for free just
to
build up hours?

CFIs already work harder than that. And what does international have to do
with it? People always throw that in, like its five times harder to cross a
boundary or something. Silly.