Criminal Prosecution for TFR Bust?

In article ,
Robert Perkins wrote:

This military prison is located in Cuban jurisdiction, and is
therefore outside the reach of American justice. The prisoners are
charged with being "illegal combatants," which is an elegant
equivocation for the total loss of justice. No inmate knows what the
future holds for him. Either they receive no due process and stand to
wait, rotting in prison for years to come, or they'll receive charges
that could mean the death penalty.

68 of these prisoners were released in the last 18 months. Karin
Assman spoke with some of them for SPIEGEL TV, and got a look at
Guantanamo from the inside.

I've never understood the problem here.

Presumably as soon as the war is over -- meaning either the other side
surrenders, or a peace treaty is negotiated and signed between the two
sides -- official representatives of the other side can show up and take
their prisoners home. Until then. they sit.

(Barring the possible use of a procedure sometimes used in earlier wars
-- including our Civil War, I think -- in which prisoners give their
word and bond not to fight again in the conflict, and are released to go
home to their farms and families.)

What's not to like? Did prisoners of war on either side in WW II have
the right to demand trials and due process? (including prisoners from
neutral nations who might have volunteered to fight on either of the
sides)

The current war is obviously an unusual war, but equally obviously it's
a war. Does the fact that the other side's mode of fighting it falls
miles outside the Geneva Convention somehow give them the right to
increased, rather than perhaps reduced, protections when taken prisoner?

"AES/newspost" wrote in message
...

I've never understood the problem here.

Presumably as soon as the war is over -- meaning either the other side
surrenders, or a peace treaty is negotiated and signed between the two
sides -- official representatives of the other side can show up and take
their prisoners home. Until then. they sit.



So, you expect bin laden to come and pick up his prisoners?

This has been declared a war against "terror." There is no formal "other
side."

Guantanamo Bay is *not* Cuban jurisdiction. We claim and exercise full
extra-territorality there. If a serviceman there commits a crime he is
charged, tried, and punished under U.S. law.

Dave Reinhart


Robert Perkins wrote:

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 11:46:20 GMT, Martin Hotze
wrote:

in German: http://www.spiegel.de/sptv/magazin/0...260710,00.html

Interesting. For free, the usual unsupported dreck. For a couple of
bucks (for me, that would be the charge for the articles plus the bank
charges to process dollars into euros) you can have the full context.

I'll offer a translation, best I can, in all cases the word
translation choices are mine:

(begin translation)

660 prisonsers now subsist in the high-security prison called "Camp
Delta" at the Guantanamo Bay Marine base. Among them is a Turk, Murat
Kurnaz, who was born and raised in Bremen (Germany). Without the
chance for a trial, he waits for his release, or at least some
official charge.

AP

Prisoners in an apparantly disenfranchised place: Camp Delta Inmates

This military prison is located in Cuban jurisdiction, and is
therefore outside the reach of American justice. The prisoners are
charged with being "illegal combatants," which is an elegant
equivocation for the total loss of justice. No inmate knows what the
future holds for him. Either they receive no due process and stand to
wait, rotting in prison for years to come, or they'll receive charges
that could mean the death penalty.

68 of these prisoners were released in the last 18 months. Karin
Assman spoke with some of them for SPIEGEL TV, and got a look at
Guantanamo from the inside.

(end translation)

Go ahead, Spiegel, tell us how you *really* feel!

I note that for a holding prison which (I'm told, and those pictures
seem to show) feeds and clothes the inmates, and gives them
opportunity to exercise their religion (note that those flourescent
prison outfits come with *head cover*), within the constraints of the
prison.

Perhaps SPIEGEL TV would serve us all better by examining something
like the French prison system, or that of, say, Saudi Arabia. In
Saudia Arabia, I'm told, the prisoners give law enforcement a hand
from time to time. Literally.

And in any case, the term is "enemy combatant," and is a *correct*
term for a combatant who operates against an army outside the
strictures of the Geneva Convention.

None of that page, of course, makes the claim that Martin made, namely
that there were bounty hunters involved in collecting the enemy
combatants. Presumably the allegations are made in the TV program? If
so, by whom? And what would be wrong with that in a war zone?

Es geht schon, Martin. Ein paar hier koennen auch Deutsch, auch wenn
unsere Tastaturen es nicht koennen!

Rob

--
[You] don't make your kids P.C.-proof by keeping them
ignorant, you do it by helping them learn how to
educate themselves.

-- Orson Scott Card

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

On Sun, 16 Nov 2003 04:04:06 GMT, Orval Fairbairn
wrote in Message-Id:
:

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

[...]

the Secret Service initially wanted
criminal charges laid against wayward pilots.

Maybe it's time to get criminal prosecutions against some officials in
the SS.

I like the way you think. With what would we charge them?



How about treason, for starters? That should get their attention.

Then, we could reduce the charges to "abuse of the colors of authority."

What we really need is names, so we can start a movement to get them
reassigend (to Antarctica, to assure that the penguins aren't plotting
terrorist threats). Those bureaucrats are like cockroaches -- they try
to do their business in the dark and cannot stand anyone shining a light
on them.

"AES/newspost" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Robert Perkins wrote:

This military prison is located in Cuban jurisdiction, and is
therefore outside the reach of American justice. The prisoners are
charged with being "illegal combatants," which is an elegant
equivocation for the total loss of justice. No inmate knows what the
future holds for him. Either they receive no due process and stand to
wait, rotting in prison for years to come, or they'll receive charges
that could mean the death penalty.

68 of these prisoners were released in the last 18 months. Karin
Assman spoke with some of them for SPIEGEL TV, and got a look at
Guantanamo from the inside.

I've never understood the problem here.

Presumably as soon as the war is over -- meaning either the other side
surrenders, or a peace treaty is negotiated and signed between the two
sides -- official representatives of the other side can show up and take
their prisoners home. Until then. they sit.

(Barring the possible use of a procedure sometimes used in earlier wars
-- including our Civil War, I think -- in which prisoners give their
word and bond not to fight again in the conflict, and are released to go
home to their farms and families.)

What's not to like? Did prisoners of war on either side in WW II have
the right to demand trials and due process? (including prisoners from
neutral nations who might have volunteered to fight on either of the
sides)

Sorry dude, they are not POWs. Our government has said that numerous times.

The current war is obviously an unusual war, but equally obviously it's
a war. Does the fact that the other side's mode of fighting it falls
miles outside the Geneva Convention somehow give them the right to
increased, rather than perhaps reduced, protections when taken prisoner?

Maybe you need to factor in the absurdity that we attacked them and now
expect them to fight by our rules. Somehow I don't think that approach is
going to work.

On Sat, 15 Nov 2003 23:44:38 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archive...ll.html#186022

Busting a *regulation* is supposed to be a civil matter. See Chapter
5 of the United States Code. Of course, this chapter has been
violated befo Remember the regulation allowing invalidation and
confiscation of a pilot's certificate without notice, due process, or
even the opportunity to contest the action?

That said, I'd almost be willing to accept this sort of penalty if
only the FAA would publish the ADIZ and FRZ on a chart suitable for
navigation; add notes to the AFD for each airport and navigation aid
inside the ADIZ; and try the pilot in front of a federal jury
consisting of peers with aviation-related certification.

But we all know how likely that will be...


Jake Brodsky,
PP ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ FME
Amateur Radio Station AB3A

Larry Dighera wrote:

In fact, according to EAA's account of the meeting, the Secret Service
initially wanted criminal charges laid against wayward pilots.

Well, if they did that, at least the pilots would get trials in something better
than the FAA's kangaroo court system.

George Patterson
They say nothing's certain except death and taxes. The thing is, death
doesn't get worse every time Congress goes into session.

In article ,
"Peter Gottlieb" wrote:

"AES/newspost" wrote in message
...

I've never understood the problem here.

Presumably as soon as the war is over -- meaning either the other side
surrenders, or a peace treaty is negotiated and signed between the two
sides -- official representatives of the other side can show up and take
their prisoners home. Until then. they sit.



So, you expect bin laden to come and pick up his prisoners?

This has been declared a war against "terror." There is no formal "other
side."


That's my point.

If bin lader doesn't want to come and pick up "his prisoners" (your
phrasing), that's *their* problem.

"Dave Stadt" wrote in message


Maybe you need to factor in the absurdity that we attacked them and
now expect them to fight by our rules. Somehow I don't think that
approach is going to work.

Are you suggesting that we should be fighting by their rules?

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/tknoFlyer
__________

Unless they decided you were a "threat" to national security and
secreted you off to a tribunal.

--
Kevin McCue
KRYN
'47 Luscombe 8E
Rans S-17 (for sale)




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